Convince me that having a larger car than you need is not selfish.

[Rooners]

Because I cannot think of a single reason why it's not. I'm talking about cars that are huge for the sake of it, not cars that carry wheelchairs, or loads of people, in a relatively compact and utilitarian manner.

But something that only has 4/5 seats yet is the size of a small tractor - and no, I don't think this is wrong if you live somewhere with poor terrain. But if you don't?

1. They take up more space when the last things we need on our crowded roads are unnecessarily supersized vehicles.

1. You can't see past them because they are often much higher than 'normal' cars - great for the person driving the thing, rubbish for everyone else

1. They tend to use a larger amount of fuel than a 'normal' car - which is, unarguably, utterly unfair given the fuel crisis the world is facing.

1. They don't fit into a normal parking space which causes untold problems in car parks.

1. They don't fit in a narrow road so cause hold ups as people try to pass each other.

So please convince me, if you can be bothered, that I ought not to be so cross when I am trying to use the roads and one of these massive tanks makes it difficult, dangerous or just really bloody awkward.

I am willing to listen. It's that or spontaneous combustion really.

I don't know where it is your driving Exactly! Apart from the centre of the old town in York, I've never driven on a road that is too narrow for vehicles larger than a small car. I've driven on country lanes with passing places; narrow farm roads; heck even dirt tracks and have always managed to negotiate round the other traffic. [Disclaimer - I never met any large lorries in the centre of York so am only surmising they'd have problems!]

Gosh 227 posts and I feel exactly the same about this issue as I did at the start with the bonus of knowing there are some more people on MN who don't give much of a stuff about anyone else using the roads.

So epic fail really - I asked people to convince me, and not one person has managed to find a reason why having a vehicle that they do not NEED is not selfish.

Perhaps because it is such an obvious thing. Of course it is selfish.

I guess then that some people just do not mind being selfish.

And it's got to the point where most people aren't even bothering to read the thread ( can't blame you) and are making the same invalid arguments and asking the same questions that have been answered several times already.

I think it's time it was put to bed.

I read the title as '... a bigger cat than needed...' which would have been a whole different debate.

I want a car with lots of seats because of my three children and lots of suspension because we have the worst roads in Britain.

That might well be selfish, I couldnt give a monkeys whether it is seen as selfish, I have to deal with fixing cars damaged from pot-holes all the time and when I have enough money I will be buying a car that is more suited to the roads I live on

I will get out the way for a van or bus. I resent getting out the way for something that serves no purpose but to flatter the ego of someone who knows full well they could easily drive something smaller, but chooses not to

Hmmm, that's a very judgemental comment, OP.

I wonder whether you are protesting too much about this, and secretly yearn for a 4X4 of your very own. I can assure you that you would never regret it and would fall in love with her immediately.

I got my 'mid life crisis' 4X4 for my 50th birthday and she's celebrating her 8th birthday on 20th of March any excuse for a party. I had no practical reason whatsoever for getting such a big and high car (I'd previously had a Toyota Carena E but they are no longer made, sob), but she's a wonderful drive and I love her to bits.

My question is, at what point does a car that is visually an 'acceptable size' become 'too big' and therefore twatty?

Having looked at Rooners link, I can see that if those particular vehicles were on country roads in particular, then yes, they are just being used to be flash I should think.
So I do think that that would irk and be inconvenient to other road users in the area.

[yes, excellent thread for showing just how many posters dont really read much of a thread]

Still say though Rooners, that people buying large cars for safety reasons, is sensible behaviour. [did you see that part? ]

modern 4x4 are a pain in the arse, usually driven by agressive drivers who for some reason, feel the need to drive fast & right up your arse, rarely give way or thank you if you give way to them and are often found to be driving whilst on the phone. i drive all over the country for my job and have found this to be the case more often than not. Audis, bmw's & r rovers appear to be the worst offenders. i think the cars are lovely actually but wouldn't want one for varying reasons. whilst i understand why someone would want one (luxury & size), they are a pain in the arse for others as they often intimidate when driving behind you PLUS they are far too big for ie local supermarket carparks ie make it harder to get in and out of a space/block views. fwiw people can buy and drive what they like but we don't have to all like it, i preferred life on the roads before the fuckers came along and think most drivers feel the same (that don't own them). the feel you often get from the drivers of them (and yes, not all drivers) is that they don't give a shit about other drivers on the road.

So epic fail really - I asked people to convince me, and not one person has managed to find a reason why having a vehicle that they do not NEED is not selfish

I'm quite confused by this thread . Rooners, what did you end up defining as NEED?

I can't decide whether IABU or not? We thought we needed the Dacia when we were moving to X village, but now we are moving to Y village, so I don't know whether you think I NEED it or not or whether I'm a selfish twat for having one

If it helps, the car isn't the size of a Range Rover and is so environmentally friendly we don't have to pay road tax...

rooners - I don't think anyone's that bothered about convincing you of anything.

this is AIBU.

we decide if you are reasonable not the other way around.... its not all about you darling!

Rooners - I'm not particularly bothered about convincing you, but in direct answer to your OP, point by point:

1. How do you judge how much extra space they take up on our roads? They take up less than a large van, much less than a lorry or articulated vehicle. They are cars - what determines the extra space they may (or may not) take up. They also pay a higher road tax than smaller cars, so that surely offsets any "extra space" - they're actually subsidising your road use, if you think about it logically!!

1. How is that different from you being stuck behind a van? Don't quite understand that point. I often drive my daughter's tiny little car, I've never experienced problems with seeing past a larger car. Maybe your point only refers to incompetent drivers. Not sure what to say to that without appearing impolite.

1. This depends, surely, on how one would use such a vehicle. For instance, my o/h runs his own business, therefore generating a lot of waste. I use my large car to transport the waste to the dump/recycling centre. One trip in my large car would take about five or six in my daughter's tiny, "normal, economical" (and not all the items would fit in it).

1. Personally, I have NEVER had a problem parking in a "normal" parking space. I've been driving R/Rovers for almost 20 years. Never a problem. Again, not quite certain where you have obtained your facts - I do, however, see a lot of very small cars parked very badly. This has nothing to do with the size of the car, again, purely incompetent driving skills.

1. I have driven in very narrow roads, again, never a problem. Many country roads are narrow, this has an impact on any size of car. In my daughter's weeny car I still have to give way to an oncoming vehicle, whatever it's size, on a narrow road. Another poor example from you, IMO.

You asked "Are you being unreasonable" and yes, I think you are, to be honest.

My Dad has just upgraded his car to a larger one (not a 4x4, but probably larger than some might think he "needs"). He actually does need it, as he has had one hip operation, is awaiting another and has constant paid and limited mobility in one leg. He has drive small cars for years, but found it increasingly difficult to get himself in and out of them. He is finding the larger car much more comfortable and much easier to manoeuvre himself in and out of. Someone (like you) might see him driving along, inwardly seething and wondering why an old chap like him needs such a large vehicle. Yet you know nothing of his life. How judgemental!

pain not paid in last para, btw!!

I've revised my opinion slightly and I can see that large vehicle does not necessarily equate to greater waste. I also took a good look this morning around the large multi storey car park I use and couldn't see much of an issue with the larger cars parked there (the bays appear to be standard size).

However the argument based on safety is still troubling me. This perceived safety is relative; you are safer in a larger vehicle by virtue of the fact that you then make other roads users, such as those in smaller cars, less safe. Now, those smaller cars may perform very well in safety tests within their own class, but a larger, heavier, higher vehicle will in general have the advantage in a collision.

There is a drive to own bigger, heavier and higher vehicles motivated simply by the desire to keep up with other vehicles on the road. This is completely understandable at an individual level, but not at all helpful at a population level.

Oh, PS - I'm just off to get the popcorn as I'm really looking forward to the spontaneous combustion promise in your last para!!

After reading some of another thread I have decided I am now going to buy a horse, which I will use when I am out shopping locally and then use the Landy for longer journeys.

Arguably having any car is selfish when there are bikes and trains. Or a bigger house. Or nicer clothes than a Mao suit. Where do you draw the line, and why?

@ Binky

I don't have a car.... I have 2 kids, chose to live on a bus route to town and school, and doctor's surgery and work and supermarket and hospital ....

we have shed loads more "spare" money now... no depreciation/car loan costs, no insurance, no car tax, no fuel costs, no servicing, no MOT, no new tyres, no screen wash, no parking charges....

if we want to go somewhere not on our bus network we hire a car or take a taxi... can do that MANY, many times before it costs as much as keeping a car - which would be mostly on the driveway. In the 3 years I've not had a car we have never "needed" one...

Good for you, Shadow, that's excellent. For now.
One day, you probably will need one.
Also, did you actually "need" your children? Probably not, but you chose to have them.
Personal choice - this is still a democratic country, thank goodness.
God bless us, every one!

It's the hogging of two lanes at junctions that irritates me. Gits, get out of the way! Grrrrr

Well that has more to do with the driver of the car, than the car itself, doesn't it.

I may one day need a car, hmmmmm ? - I will, however, be unable to drive it for medical reasons - like many, many thousands of people.

Personal choice does not always provide as much of a "choice" as you think....

Not everyone can have a car, I have just noticed since getting rid of it, how much we didn't actually need it, and how much of a drain on our finances it was.

Sorry for the hijack, but if you buy an LPG converted car, or get yours converted does it affect your insurance?

The affecting other drivers on the road is a red herring. how about trucks/buses/fire engines? Just because they are essential, it doesn't make them easier to see around. You just adjust your driving to cope with the obvious obstruction to your view.

I have a bigger car that has 4x4 capability at the touch of a button. never used it yet, had to reason. I recently drove from Melbourne to Adelaide & I appreciated the bigger car, so did the rest of my family.

Regards to fuel, a full tank lasts longer than it did on my older car.

OP, do you want to give us an approved list of which cars are acceptable to drive in which situations?

I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times someone in a "larger car" has inconvencienced me, as another road user, due directly to the size of their car. That's in 25 years+ of driving. Most road users who "inconvenience" me do so because they're twats who can't drive / read the road properly / judge distance irrespective of the size or type of their vehicle.

I drive an estate car. I make no apology for that. It's not for you, or any other individual, to judge whether or not I "need" a car of that size. You know nothing about me or my circumstances, and I'd warrant you know roughly the same amount about the circumstances of those whose cars you judge to be "too big".

modern 4x4 are a pain in the arse, usually driven by agressive drivers who for some reason, feel the need to drive fast & right up your arse, rarely give way or thank you if you give way to them and are often found to be driving whilst on the phone.

I see that as a trait for all shit road users, of which there are many & not exclusive to 4x4 users.