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Original poster

to re-pose the radio 4 question - Is childcare good for CHILDREN?

859 replies

IceBeing · 04/03/2014 08:40

Our dearest Justine and some bloke from the family childcare trust were on radio 4 this morning talking about childcare costs.

They focussed on Mums who would like to work more but cannot afford to due to childcare costs, and a proposal to make more free time available for 2-3 yos.

They both made a compelling case that this situation was bad for the Mums (because they want to work and can't).

They made a reasonable (but by no means obviously correct) argument that it was better for the economy for these Mums to work.

But they were then asked something along the lines of:

" Is increased access to childcare good for children? I mean if it isn't there isn't really any point? "

And they didn't answer AT ALL. They went back to the previous economic answer. Well actually Justine didn't get a chance to respond - so no accusation in her specific direction!

But what is the answer?

Is taking a child out of the home and putting them in nursery for an additional period between 2 and 3 yo (which was the proposal being discussed) actually good for the child?

Do kids in nursery earlier do better/worse at school? Are they happier/less happy? Is this a simple case of happier mummy, happier toddler?

OP posts:
LittleBearPad · 05/03/2014 22:30

Amazingly enough because they will be at work and therefore not able to drop in as was suggested. I work an hour away from DDs nursery. It's not feasible.

funnyossity · 05/03/2014 22:31

"so if women are happy to lower their expectations then it's ok? That's a shitty point of view"

I interpreted that as anger at Retro's assertion that her friends were ok with going back to "lesser" jobs.

LittleBearPad · 05/03/2014 22:33

You were right to do so.

funnyossity · 05/03/2014 22:34

Who is telling you you should feel guilty? Do you respect their POV?

And what is this "precious moments" ?

Sillylass79 · 05/03/2014 22:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

IdRatherPlayHereWithAllTheMadM · 05/03/2014 22:35

littlebear

Don't be bitter about it.

Just take an hour for dentist or doctors or anything like that, as if you were sneaking off for an interview and every now and then drop in.

I dont mean ten times a week go in and hang round, but just every so often, drop in.

Its the basic and only thing you can do to see what's going on.

IdRatherPlayHereWithAllTheMadM · 05/03/2014 22:39

sily

Its this that worries me so much, I could write a novel about this sort of thing but for the elderly and I have seen and heard enough things about nurseries to know they are not different. They are a business run for profit and they have control over people who cannot speak back.

My brother was in care he was disabled and again the things I have witnessed. You can't get it until you have seen it - lived it worked on the other side, why would anyone not want to simply check up on where their dc are, as you say, you stay at home for deliveries and all sorts of things, a quick round trip to pop in, and you make sure your child is safe and happy? Is that really to much to do for your baby>

Retropear · 05/03/2014 22:40

So why can't parents be happy with lesser jobs after dc?

My dp has turned down the London mega bucks thing since we've had DC.Granted he has a bloody stressful job but it's a lot less stressful than the London job albeit not as exciting but he's happy.

My bil dropped 2 days and changed who he's working for-he's happy.

My friends have gone from bloody stressful jobs to jobs they enjoy,have less stress and fit round their family.They're happy(and have the best of both worlds imvho).

Not everybody lives for climbing the corporate ladder.

janey68 · 05/03/2014 22:45

I can't imagine anything worse than living to climb the corporate ladder
My point was that many couples achieve the balance in their family life by both continuing to work and both having a good quality home life too. For some- not all- couples, the balance is achieved better that way than by one partner being sole earner and the other not working.

LittleBearPad · 05/03/2014 22:45

Just take an hour for dentist or doctors or anything like that, as if you were sneaking off for an interview and every now and then drop in.

You haven't been at work for a while have you? So I should arrive at work, then travel back for an hour for a spurious dentists appointment and loiter for 30 minutes so it would appear I've been to the dentist and then travel back again for an hour. And I should do this every few weeks. Plus I should drop into nursery and say hi DD. No I'm not picking you up, sorry I'm back off to work now. See you in another couple of hours. Yep brilliant plan....

Given I work three days a week I'd be a bit of an idiot to make these appointments on a working day wouldn't I?

Retropear · 05/03/2014 22:48

Don't you get leave?

My sister used to work 3 days and took time off sometimes in work time using leave for appointments(in order to save her free days with her dc).

LittleBearPad · 05/03/2014 22:49

So why can't parents be happy with lesser jobs after dc?

Some may but it really is ok if other people aren't, and for people read women because the majority of the time it's womens who have to make these choices.

LittleBearPad · 05/03/2014 22:50

Don't you get leave?

Yes, and then DD doesn't go to nursery. So it would somewhat tricky to pop into see how she's doing.

Retropear · 05/03/2014 22:51

But this thread isn't about that.

It's about asking an important question in order to inform those choices.There is no excuse not to ask.

Ubik1 · 05/03/2014 22:54

I have a had a career, now have a 'lesser job' that fits around the children - it's 18 hours a week public sector call centre.

Tonight I am on my third nightshift. I work 5 weekends in 8. Frequent nightshifts; 12.30pm to 8pm, and evenjngs 6-midnight. Am desperate for 9-5.

'Lesser job' does not mean necessarily less stress/better life.

Sorry but the harsh reality fir most families is that both parents need to work and yes we spend money on a holiday etc but I have also been utterly skint and looking after 3childten ft and that is even less fun.

LittleBearPad · 05/03/2014 22:55

But there's also no way to know. There are too many variables regardless of how good a statistician looks at the data. It's more complicated than the cycle helmets example above where the helmets are all broadly the same and people's physiology is broadly similar.

Sillylass79 · 05/03/2014 22:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

IdRatherPlayHereWithAllTheMadM · 05/03/2014 22:56

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/2017012-So-angry-about-what-I-overheard-in-dns-nursery-today

this thread is now in chat, Little Bear, please read Marys Bum post, Please.

LittleBearPad · 05/03/2014 22:57

Well it's a choice I don't feel I have to make.

IdRatherPlayHereWithAllTheMadM · 05/03/2014 22:59

Read that Link Little and then say that.

LittleBearPad · 05/03/2014 23:00

Why IdRather so that I'll run in tomorrow, withdraw DD with immediate effect and resign so I can be a SAHM. I'll have to let DH know he's now wholly responsible for our finances but hell it won't put any extra pressure on him will it now.

Sillylass79 · 05/03/2014 23:00

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LittleBearPad · 05/03/2014 23:00

No. I won't read it.

janey68 · 05/03/2014 23:01

I think dropping in unannounced can be useful, and I valued the fact that my children's nursery welcomed such visits. I did it a few times early on but didn't feel the need to do it after that. I certainly don't think a parent should feel obliged to do it though if they are totally happy with their choice

ColouringInQueen · 05/03/2014 23:02

"I pulled my dt's out a nursery for something similar, my office was in the same building so on day 4ish I popped in unexpectedly, something they had agreed to me doing but it was the first time I'd had a breather, they were 19 months.
when I got there dd was strapped in a high chair, it was 2pm so nowhere near meal time, I'd no idea how long she'd been crying but she was sobbing and all blotchy and sweaty, the way little ones go when they've been screaming for a long time, I was horrified and the workers were the same acting super nice. I asked why she was in the chair, they said she'd had a snack - I couldn't see any evidence of it, I asked how long she'd been crying, they said less than a minute, I knew that was a lie - I removed them straught away.

a few days later my parents were taking me to Work as they needed my car since they were suddenly needing to be childcare - and dd started screaming as soon as she saw we were turning into the road to the office, was inconsolable abs only calmed after they headed towards Home.

I never did pay the bill they sent me, and I canceled the deposit cheque, telling them why I wasn't paying - they didn't try to chase me for the money I would have owed them under the contract so I'm sure they knew they were in the wrong. please tell your sister so she can investigate."