to re-pose the radio 4 question - Is childcare good for CHILDREN?

[IceBeing]

Our dearest Justine and some bloke from the family childcare trust were on radio 4 this morning talking about childcare costs.

They focussed on Mums who would like to work more but cannot afford to due to childcare costs, and a proposal to make more free time available for 2-3 yos.

They both made a compelling case that this situation was bad for the Mums (because they want to work and can't).

They made a reasonable (but by no means obviously correct) argument that it was better for the economy for these Mums to work.

But they were then asked something along the lines of:

" Is increased access to childcare good for children? I mean if it isn't there isn't really any point? "

And they didn't answer AT ALL. They went back to the previous economic answer. Well actually Justine didn't get a chance to respond - so no accusation in her specific direction!

But what is the answer?

Is taking a child out of the home and putting them in nursery for an additional period between 2 and 3 yo (which was the proposal being discussed) actually good for the child?

Do kids in nursery earlier do better/worse at school? Are they happier/less happy? Is this a simple case of happier mummy, happier toddler?

It's all a balancing act, and Tbh a year ML for each child seems very reasonable, taking into account employers and employees needs. The transferable parental leave is a bloody fantastic idea and I hope it leads to many couples sharing, with mum taking say, first 6 months off and then dad months 6-12.

The fact is getting back to the op perhaps this whole subject is back to front and the op's question should be asked a bit more.

But getting any job down the line is difficult if you've a long break in your cv.You're not living in the real world

I think you will find many women do this. Their expectations change, what they want, don't like past career retrain and so on.

Many women go back to work after a break and the gap is down to having children, not running off to Thailand to smoke drugs for 6 years.

Well perhaps that needs to be changed Little if it was found to be in the interests of children.

The fact is getting back to the op perhaps this whole subject is back to front and the op's question should be asked a bit more

Totally agree. We are not a communist state all working like Bees for the state, we are a caring sensitive nation and we need to ask whats best for our children esp as we are known for having some of the most depressed and pressured and miserable children in the world.

I agree Id loads of my friends have gone back to lesser jobs.They actually like having less stress and a better work/life balance.

Its all about choice and quality of life.

So if women are happy to lower their expectations then it's ok? That's a shitty point of view. No wonder the glass ceiling is in no danger.

Yy to choice.

Can't help feeling we're getting less and less in several areas of life.

I think it's starting to piss people off being continuously dictated to by the gov as to what we should be doing as regards our own children.

And for many it's about paying the mortgage whilst being told they should feel guilty for working and missing precious moments of fleeting time.

Then I assume your friends are very happy with their lives retro. It just seems a little odd that the people on here who are so desperate to decry childcare are the ones who are saying they don't want it, don't need it and don't want to go to work anyway!!

No many want to lower their expectations.

Many don't want it all.

I once wanted to be a head teacher,there is nothing I'd like less now.Having kids makes you re-evaluate what you want in life as does death,health etc. Your priorities can change.

So if women are happy to lower their expectations then it's ok?

Yes, if it makes that person happy. It's not lowering expectations its changing your mind, making a choice.
Working for somebody does not mean you have high expectations it means you are employed

LittleBearPad I don't understand your anger at the idea of some folk not having a career but rather a job. My husband turned down an "unmissable" promotion because it would have disrupted his/our family life. It's not compulsory to reach the top.

Nobody said anybody should be feeling guilty just that being told work should be a priority above the needs of your children is bollocks.

No actually I'd like some part time non teaching work so will use childcare still at some point.Sure I'm not the only one on here.I won't wail about the cost though.I appreciate that good childcare costs and it won't be long until I no longer need it.

I'm not suggesting women need to want it all or want to be FD of a FTSE100 company. But how many actually want to lower their expectations and how many have no choice but to accept whatever job they can get.

Are your friends all really thrilled that they have lesser jobs - or do they tell you this?

who are so desperate to decry childcare

I want affordable and safe child care

I am not convinced in any way shape or form that there are enough safe guards in place to ensure top quality care for children in a nursery setting. Esp not for babies. I think its something we should all be pressing for as a society before more child care is rolled out.

And yy to Silly's post.

... I agree with your final point there retro. Having children is a life changing event and does change priorities. However, you make it sound like you think this applies only to women. Many of us have husbands and partners who feel exactly the same- they reevaluate things too, and what works for many such families is a healthy balance whereby both parents can continue to work as well as raise the children

22.08.58 post I was referring to

They're happy Little.

Many have been very creative and actually have it pretty good tbh.It is encouraging for me,we're not in a London though so maybe there is more scope for it in some places than others.

I'm not angry that some people have jobs not careers. What an odd thing to say.

But I am fairly narked that a distinction was drawn between the two above and not by me. Why shouldn't a person enjoy their job just as much a someone enjoy a career. Why should they feel guilty for either having to send their children to childcare for financial reasons or choose to do so?

Because someone tells them they are missing precious moments, that they're leaving their child with strangers who might do god knows what and they should drop in unannounced to check up on them and that stopping working for 13 years won't impact their lives at all.

that they're leaving their child with strangers who might do god knows what and they should drop in unannounced to check up on them

Whats wrong with this,

What harm would it do anyone to simply drop in and see whats going on? Everyone with children in child care should do this, or an elderly relative in care or someone who is disabled in care! Everyone should be doing it!