AIBU to be pissed off at friend not helping me with job application?

[ProcrastinationIsMyMiddleName]

I have an interview for a very exciting new job.

When the job advert came up, I immediately emailed it to one of my close friends who actually did the job of my potential future boss, but when she applied for a promotion, she didn't get it and left the company.

She initially didn't respond to my email, and then when prompted, was extremely negative. She told me that I would hate the job, it's not what I want, and launched into a rant about how badly they treated her over the promotion.

I applied anyway, and I now have an interview. I wasn't going to mention it to the negative friend, since she had been so unsupportive. However, it then occurred to me that in having a friend who has actually done this job, I have a huge advantage over anyone else and I really should try and tap into her knowledge a bit more.

So I sent her a message on Facebook to tell her that I have an interview (hooray!) and told her I hoped she might be able to give me some pointers, and insider knowledge about the company etc.

I had no reply from her, despite seeing that she has since been active on Facebook. I know sometimes Facebook messaging isn't always the most reliable so I sent her an email yesterday. No reply.

I realize I might be a little insensitive here though, since my friend is clearly still feeling bitter about not getting the job promotion (18 months ago) and might not want reminding of it, and hearing about the lady who did get the job might sting a little. I should add though that she subsequently got a really good job, claimed she never really wanted the first job anyway, and really ought to be happy with her lot.

A bit of background on our friendship - we have been friends for 9 years, having worked together previously. We moved apart physically as I took another job and moved city, but we have always stayed in close contact. I saw her recently at a mutual friend's wedding, so it's not as if we are no longer close. Her career is progressing better than mine, so it's not as if she should be jealous of me at all.

So, do I persevere since she really could help me a lot and her insight will give me a huge advantage over the other applicants? (I should add that this job is a rare opportunity, and I really want it badly.)

Or do I give up on her, and accept that I might have been insensitive to have asked in the first place?

[ProcrastinationIsMyMiddleName]

OK - simple question.

You apply for a job in a field which you have been out of for a while. Let's say you've been a SAHM and feel a bit rusty.

You ask your friend for some pointers on what the job might involve so that you can target your research properly.

Are you telling me you wouldn't do that? Are you saying that if my friend emailed back to say 'these are the key tasks for the job' then I would not be getting that job on my own merit?

Really?????

[WottaTheOdds]

Well in fact Procrastination I was genuinely on the point of coming back and saying that you did seem now to be engaging in rational, perceptive discussion, but I was afeared I might sound patronising!

And now I find I'm accused of disappearing

[ProcrastinationIsMyMiddleName]

Someone upthread - sorry I forget who- said that they would expect a candidate to talk to people who had done the job, and do their research.

I think I would actually be utterly foolish not to talk to my friend about this job.

Do people actually think it's bad to ask others for advice???

[ElephantsAndMiasmas]

I don't think you actually like this woman much at all. You think because you've had the kind of friendship where you discuss personal problems at times, she has a duty to help you get a job.

The fact that you say - as evidence that you are still "close" - "I saw her recently at a mutual friend's wedding" says a lot. Presumably you didn't organise the wedding? So when was the last time you solicited proper contact/her company for anything that wasn't this job application?

I've had a bad experience with a previous employer - just because you think you know what happened, that doesn't mean you have the whole story. TBH if someone asked me for advice on how to get a job there, I would feel really uncomfortable and be inclined to give an answer along the lines of "don't bother".

You say "she has decided not to be happy for me, and has decided not to help me". Maybe she would like to be happy for you but just can't like the thought of you working with the people she dislikes so much? It's a bit along the lines of you getting upset because you're dating her ex and she won't give you advice on what he'd like for dinner or something. It would be nice if she did help you, but she certainly doesn't have to and you need to remember that.

[ProcrastinationIsMyMiddleName]

Wotta that's ok, thank you for nearly saying it! Not patronising at all.

It wasn't you that I was thinking of, and let's be honest, you're allowed some time away from my thread.. I'm not that much of a drama queen that I won't let you have a small break!

[TheToysAreALIVEITellThee]

TBH if you want to fix this I think you need to get in touch with her first, to apologise for being insensitive. No cute little extras such as "while you were still upset" blah blah bollox, just an apology, from the heart, for telling her, gleefully, that you have applied for a job at a company that for whatever reason has caused her upset.

[PatriciaHolm]

Asking for advice is fine. Expecting her to give it was not, as she's clearly had a bad experience with this employer, and - who knows? - may genuinely think you getting a job there is a bad idea.

You don't sound like you like her much anyway, maybe she's got that vibe from you already and isn't too pleased at being hassled for advice again when as far as she is concerned she has already made her views clear.

Good friends help each other out with advice and support each other. You aren't good friends and she can't help. Leave it.

[ProcrastinationIsMyMiddleName]

Elephants yes, good point.

We live in different countries - so we don't see each other often. We chat, but have a long history. We have been closer in the past than we are now.

And yes you're right, she may well be finding it difficult to be happy for me if she has such bad feelings about the job.

[scarletforya]

You're coming across like you want to be spoon fed Op.

Release your grip on your idea that you must have her help. Put the job title into Google and read similar job specs. You say you've worked for this company before?

I'm a bit confused that you say it's your dream job but you don't know what it involves?

[TheListingAttic]

I just really thought that as a friend she would say "Wow, great you've got an interview" and be happy to help.

I'm not actually sure I would, if the last thing I'd said to this friend was it was a dreadful company and they'd hate working there. Even if that advice did come from my own bitterness, if that's what I'd said and you're next reply was 'I got the interview you told me not to go for', I'd be a bit you're funeral.

Which is why I lean to YABU, but not so much as some earlier posters seemed to think!

[ADishBestEatenCold]

"Funny how, now that this has settled into a reasonable discussion about my friend's feelings - all the flame throwers from the beginning of the thread have disappeared. Are you disappointed that I actually can see reason? Or have you re-read my point that I made that I actually agreed with many posters pretty early on in the thread - but that doesn't sit right with your opinion of me so you've gone off in a huff?"

Bloody hell, OP, are you completely and utterly unreasonable about everything in life?

"What the hell is the point of AIBU if you can't post about an issue that you're having, and have a reasonable discussion about your feelings?

You asked AM I Being Unreasonable. A majority of people said they thought you were.

Now you assume many of those posters have "gone off in a huff".

You first posted just over two hours ago, at a time when many posters might have been having a lunchtime spot on Mumsnet.
It is now a time when such posters may well have finished their lunchtime spot on Mumsnet and gone back to work, or for afternoon appointments, or gone to attend to their DCs, etc.

A likely scenario, one might assume, given the hour. But, no, you assume they have "gone off in a huff"!

What is this job you're applying for, anyway?

[TheListingAttic]

your funeral.

Fck.

[TheToysAreALIVEITellThee]

Oh good lord

You havent asked others for advice

You have asked someone who used to work there, that feels, for whatever reason, that she was treated badly.

If you cant see the difference then all the inside knowledge in the world still aint gonna get you this job

[kungfupannda]

I think you've gone about this like a bull in a china shop, and you say you've accepted that you've been insensitive, but you still seem to be saying that she is in the wrong.

You still say you see her in a different light, in contrast to other friends who have been happy to help - but those friends presumably weren't previously in the job you are now applying for. You can't contrast the two as only one party is in that specific situation.

You accept that your initial email was insensitive, and you then chased her up about it, had a conversation where she was negative (and presumably not brimming over with eagerness to be involved in the situation) and that should have been your cue to leave well alone and possibly consider an apology for pushing her on the subject. Instead you contact her again about your interview, and then follow up again. At this point she was probably thoroughly annoyed and thinking 'FFS How much clearer do I have to be about not wanting to be involved?"

There are more than your wishes and feelings involved - she couldn't be much clearer about not wanting to be drawn into this, and she has every right to those feelings. It's the kind of thing you can just see someone posting an AIBU about.

'AIBU to be upset that my friend keeps pestering me? I left a job in upsetting circumstances. My friend knows how bitter I feel about the whole experience, but she's just sent me an email telling me how my old role is her 'dream job' and asking me for help applying for it, and not even acknowledging that I might be upset about it. She chased me up when I tried to avoid having a conversation about it and I told her that I wouldn't recommend her applying for this job. She went ahead anyway, has now got an interview and has contacted me for advice. I ignored the message as I was getting pretty irritated that she was disregarding my feelings, and she's now sent me another email asking me if I'd seen the previous one. AIBU to be re-evaluating the friendship, bearing in mind that she appears to have no concern for my feelings on this subject and won't let the matter drop?'

I would suggest contacting her directly with an apology, rather than just waiting to see if she responds and then apologising. You are either sorry or you're not. If you are, then tell her. If you're not, then don't. Being sorry shouldn't hinge on whether she gets back to you or not.

[ProcrastinationIsMyMiddleName]

Scarlet I think I just feel a bit insecure about my abilities.

I know I can do it without her help, I just feel a bit shaky about it.

I'm unsure of the day to day tasks of the job - I suppose it's not the job but the opportunity to get back into marketing, the step back on the ladder which is my real dream.

I guess I was just set on the idea that, since she has done the job, she could give me so much knowledge that I might otherwise struggle to get. And potentially no other applicant would have that insider knowledge.

But yes, I can do it myself.... and hopefully I will!

[SelectAUserName]

My earlier advice was a message saying something like "I've just got a grip of myself and realised how insensitive I've been banging on about this job. I'm sorry to have gone on about it. Lunch next time is on me to make up for it." (If you're in different countries, the last bit might not be applicable.)

And FWIW, I wouldn't wait to see if she replies to your email before sending it. You've been the one applying all the pressure, you now need to be the one to say "sorry, I've been out of order".

[scarletforya]

What is the job title Op..

[MaidOfStars]

I'm unsure of the day to day tasks of the job

What kind of stuff are you looking to find out? Presumably, you know broadly what the job involves (can't fathom why you would apply otherwise). Do you want specifics on clients or something?

Is the information you are looking for company-specific? If so, it may become terribly obvious that you'd had information "from the inside", and that may not go in your favour?

[SelectAUserName]

If you've gone through an application process to the point of interview, presumably you've seen a job description/person spec? Which tends to list the day-to-day tasks involved? You must either have some inkling about what they entail due to similar prior experience, in which case you don't need your friend's help, or you haven't a clue what the tasks mean, which suggests there is likely to be a stronger candidate with the skills and knowledge already.

Either way, still no excuse to have kept on at your friend the way you have.

I really, really hope that it has just been naive insensitivity that has driven your behaviour and not some odd compulsion to rub her nose in the fact that you think can succeed where she failed.

[ADishBestEatenCold]

"Put the job title into Google and read similar job specs. You say you've worked for this company before?"

Good advice, scarletforya.

[Oh dear, I wish I'd never found this thread. I'm meant to be formatting letters to prospective clients, and I still haven't started!!!]

[shoom]

If you use to work for the company, and discussed the senior role with your then-friend when she was applying for it, then you know far more about the role than most other potential interviewees , and certainly more than a "rusty sahm".

However I suspect you'll keep the thread going until people agree with you about something.

[ProcrastinationIsMyMiddleName]

Kungfu thanks for your reply. You suggest I email her to apologise -but I'm wary of doing that lest it be considered pestering her? Wouldn't it be better to let it lie?

Sorry I should have made it clear - I know that the job I'm applying for involves, but seeing is the role is to assist the director's job - and my friend used to do the equivalent of that senior job, I wanted to know what that job involved to get a greater insight.

I really, really hope that it has just been naive insensitivity that has driven your behaviour and not some odd compulsion to rub her nose in the fact that you think can succeed where she failed.

God no, not my intention at all to rub her nose in it - she is still way senior to me, I would be getting a foot at the bottom of a ladder on which she is way, way above me already.

[ProcrastinationIsMyMiddleName]

Thank you shoom that's a good perspective on it, perhaps I know more than I give myself credit for.

However I suspect you'll keep the thread going until people agree with you about something - well I'll keep the thread going as long as people are willing to discuss this with me, whether they agree or not. That's what a discussion is, right?

[ProcrastinationIsMyMiddleName]

You first posted just over two hours ago, at a time when many posters might have been having a lunchtime spot on Mumsnet.
It is now a time when such posters may well have finished their lunchtime spot on Mumsnet and gone back to work, or for afternoon appointments, or gone to attend to their DCs, etc.

Good point ADish, sorry didn't think about the time of day!

I was being a little tongue in cheek when I posted that - AIBU just exasperates me sometimes because people are so ready to jump down the OPs (my) throat, accuse me of saying things I never said, attributing thoughts and feelings to me which they cannot possibly know. Of course I was going to reiterate my point, because I have a viewpoint and believe in it. I just hate it when people are so ready to get nasty.

[shoom]

AIBU is usually more about asking one question, and many people answering that question.

It seems like you want to discuss the job as you're excited about getting an interview. Fair enough. But as long as this appears in active convos you'll get people reading the initial question about "being pissed off with your friend", and giving the same responses you've already seen.