to think that people with asthma who smoke are selfish?

[quaginty]

People with bad asthma/copd/other lung conditions who cost NHS hundreds of pounds for treatment then fuck up the treatment by smoking.

Wonder why they feel shit then go have another fag at the hospital door then back up for more meds!

YABU

"Selfish"? Look at the duty on cigarettes sometimes, and compare it to the tax on your fatty foods, before weighing up what a drain they are on Glorious People's State where we all butt into other people's personal choices for their own good.

Honestly, the preachy busybodyness of people about smoking, I am this close to taking up smoking as an act of FU.

I am literally on my way out the door to try and buy some asthma and cigarettes now.

But by that point Adeleh, you would have already cost the NHS a lot of money.

I don't mean to single you out btw, I'm just saying I don't think these things are as easy as the OP is making out.

If it was, there would be no smokers/heavy drinkers or overweight people at all.

I agree with you, worra - it's incredibly difficult. But I agree with the OP too that making the choice to put my need to smoke over the needs of my children is selfish. ( and actually my GP has told me that my lifestyle is unlikely to have an impact on life expectancy and that chubby people do better after heart attacks! This was v foolish of her. I probably will cost in terms of joint replacements etc. it is actually making me think about it again)

I'm another who smokes and has asthma.
I wish I didn't, I know I shouldn't but I'M AN ADDICT
Yes, I'm weak, I've tried before to quit and failed.

I pay my taxes in the UK, I pay for my inhalers on prescription, I also buy additional medicines to help me when needed so really think YABVU and rather cunty tbh.
Ignoring the fact it is detrimental to my health. The money I pay in tax for cigarettes has massively surpassed the amount (in money) of NHS treatment I've ever recieved because of my smoking.

Smoorikins, that's so weird, I had the same thing. I was really asthmatic till 18, then started smoking and haven't had an attack since. If I do stop, I get wheezy. I don't smoke a lot maybe four a day but its definitely been similar for me.

I think people with addictions don't really like/love themselves much hence it doesn't matter to them if they die early.

PS I am not excepting myself from this group.

According to scientific studies, subjective well being is linked to longer lives Here and here

Subjective well being is happiness, optimism, positive emotions etc.

So if your neighbour is getting you down you're best to just put it out of mind and refuse to be taken advantage of, rather than do it whilst silently seething.

After all, it's good for your health and we all need to help the NHS.

Also, I briefly studied economics in France and one of the first lessons was how the government should encourage everyone to smoke because it brings in HUGE tax revenues and is likely to kill you off before you've cost a fortune in state pensions and care.

OP seems to have sand in her vagina.

hm. loller. Do think your post was rather gross...OP might have strong views, but sand in the vagina? Sorry that to me is plain nasty.

Watch those judge pants don't choke you OP

Such nastiness on here . There is a lot of defensiveness from smokers and the old argument about paying taxes etc etc gets rather repetitive.

I know that smoking is an addiction and I would like to see more support available for those who want to give up.

I am running round after my parents who can't look after themselves any more because of smoking related illnesses. I am incredibly sad for them both, their poor quality of life. But I'm also as angry as the op because they still smoke - they didn't give up when they had kids they won't give up for their grand kids. I'm so sad because I miss all the nice family things we could be doing. And I am so angry because they are selfish and fags are more important to them than me or my kids.and as a full time working single parent I could do with their support, not supporting them before they get to "old" age.

Hmm. Haven't read all the replies as I can see this being a bit of a bunfight. But I can see your point OP. My mother died of emphysema. She also had COPD and asthma. She never stopped smoking and never really tried, at least not after she was diagnosed and certainly not when she was given only a short time to live. She was an addict, but she was also selfish. She needed help and I do wonder what might have happened if she had been required to seek addiction counselling as part of her treatment.
Addiction is a weird thing - it twists people and it's hard to see where the person ends and the addiction begins. In my experience anyway.

I have walked in your shoes mellowdramatic. It is horrible isn't it. My parents never became grandparents during their lifetime.

I think those who are so defensive about their smoking just don't understand what it is like.

Yes bunbaker and mellow, tis awful. I was a smoker myself for years both before and after my mum's death (and was only young when she died). I struggled to give up so I do understand how hard it is, and I totally get how these patterns of behaviour form as I became part of it myself. To be honest I'd be dancing in the streets if it was banned altogether. Nasty, nasty addiction.

I agree I'd love a ban! But I can also see its good to have choice - I'd hate a ban on red wine!

It's not the early death but the years of disgusting drowning in phlegm and brown tinged grottiness that gets me. Brown teeth, fingers,wallpaper, radiators. Coughing every half hour til tears stream down their faces. And piles of tissues full of green yuck. Yuck that they haven't got the energy to clear cos they can't get their breath. And the stink :(

You don't have to be selfish to smoke you have to be really really thick.

I'm sorry, I am very very angry. And very very sad.

the problem is being so reductive.

Smoking = selfish
Driving a car= selfish
being overweight = selfish

The fact is that our society and modern lives have promoted certain behaviours in the past (ie smoking, which was normalised for decades) car driving (which is still normalised but research suggests is worse for our overall health than smoking)
making personal health choices. ie being overweight and not following a healthy diet, exercise regime, which we all know leads to a much great risk of heart disease and other nasties...

instead of blaming each other for the choices we have made due to our circumstances, we would do better to support each other in making changes in our lives that benefit US.

I agree madame.

But I would add that it is also really unhelpful when you see, as has been demonstrated just a little bit on this thread, the attitude of 'it's an addiction so not their fault'. Well, up to a point. But addiction doesn't negate the need to take personal responsibility. It makes it harder, yes, and that's where support comes in. But certainly when it comes to my mum for example, I think, well yes fucking awful addiction and she had a miserable last few years. But she should have and could have chosen to seek help tackling her addiction to smoking, which was the root cause of her physical health problems, if not her mental health issues. And that for me is the problem. I don't think it's ok to accept the treatment, disability living allowance etc etc which my mum had, without also accepting the responsibility to attempt to change. Never mind the expectation she had that I would spend my twenties being her full time carer! Which, had she not died unexpectedly early, I would have done. And that would have been another life ruined.

Sorry, need a 'bitter' emoticon.

oh, that is grim ginnel.

I totally agree ginnel.

So unnecessary and so sad.

Thanks madame, yes it was grim. It was a long long time ago for me now though. However I can completely understand why these kind of behaviours are labelled 'selfish' because, well, they are. Even if the cause is more complex.

Bunbaker I'm not sure what more can be given as support. NHs has provided support in the form of regular meetings and info. My parents can afford patches, e cigarettes or whatever they want. The problem for them I think is they don't really want to give up especially as the damage is now done. I think the smoking in public ban should help? I wish there was a magic wand :)

Thank you Madame, I agree. Except I think the personal choice angle is a bit iffy.

What always gets forgotten in these discussions, when some posters gleefully take the opportunity to be Completely Fucking Vile towards smokers, is that the vast majority became addicted as children.

I started smoking when I was 12. Managed (with a couple of slips) to not smoke during two pg but apart from that have remained thoroughly addicted, in spite of trying Allen Carr (book and clinical sessions), hypnotherapy, group support, gum, patches, inhalators and countless self help books - some of these things several times. Now in my mid 40's, having smoked half my teeth out and given myself an early menopause, I have at last found ecigs and for the first time ever I feel relapse proof. Without those, I am quite sure I would still be smoking - making repeated quit attempts and experiencing repeated failure and worsening health. I am resigned to the fact I am in all probability a nicotine addict for life.

I am very pleased for those who managed to stop smoking (and, crucially, stay stopped) relatively easily. I wish everybody could do that. I wish I could do that. I have nothing but sympathy however for those who find they cannot stop and continue smoking through cancer, COPD, heart attacks, leg amputations ... That's not selfishness! Nobody selfishly wants to smoke their legs off. It happens because people simply cannot stop.

I also have a lot of sympathy for the relatives who are having to cope with watching the self destruction of their loved ones. Don't forget that, if the children of smokers are more likely to smoke themselves, there are a helluva lot of smokers caring for elderly smoking relatives. My DMum has emphysema. She has at long last managed to give up, around 10 years ago, and she still craves fags every single day.

It's absolutely right to be angry about this, but direct your anger where it belongs - at the tobacco industry and at the government (all of them) who are perfectly happy to keep smoking legal and to screw increasingly exhorbitant levels of tax from some very desperate people.