to wonder why anyone with young children would have a dog as a pet or on their home?

[needtobediscreet]

In light of the many incidents of death and injury caused to young children by dogs, even those not previously considered a danger, I can't help but wonder WHY anyone would. The latest seems to involve a six day old baby in west Wales.

Don't get me wrong, I love animals. I grew up with cats and had a pet dog myself when I was in secondary school. But the nicest of dogs can 'turn' it seems and the results are a lot worse than when a cat gets a bit upset.

Clearly in the majority of cases the affected families weren't deliberately neglectful but why take the risk?

I'm prepared for lots of responses from dog owners....!!!

The whole thread brings to mind an old saying:

The fox has to be lucky just the ONCE, the farmer has to be lucky ALL the time

In other words, no matter how careful you are as an owner with a dog and a baby, just the one incident of forgetting to be conscientious and cautious can result in a tragedy.

As all dogs can turn, I guess that you've got to be practical and measure the risk of such an attack accordingly and take into account the SIZE of both child and dog.

Yorkshire terrier and 7-year-old child= even if Yorkie has a bad day, the child has a massive chance of surviving the attack.

Rottweiller/alsatian/mastiff/pit bull terriers/ and small baby= only an idiot would leave them together.

So I'd say the benefits of having a yorkshire terrier around a 7-year-old far outweigh any potential negatives.

There is NO way that the benefits of having a rottweiller (and other breeds mentioned) could outweigh the potential damage it could do.

they treat their pets like people

This ^^^ X1000

Dogs are pack animals, they need to know they come last in the pack.

Dogs have also been bred over centuries for particular traits to make them in to working dogs and these traits are now instincts.

A boarder collie can be a fantastic pet but needs a lot of exercise and stimulation, Their instinct is to round things up, sheep, other pets, children, cars.

It's much harder to have a boarder collie as a pet in a city then where you have lots of land which is why there are things like flyball.

One of my friends had 2 elderly Westies, but when she was pregnant with baby 1 she got baby gates and started training them to know they could no longer wander around the house.

It's SIZE in relation to dog and child that matters. Bolleaux to how well-trained they are, they can ALL attack.

I also think all that 'my (massive) dog is so protective of my one-year-old'* is nonsense.

'He's never hurt a fly'. Er, that should be: 'he's never hurt a fly yet'

*What does this actually mean? Even IF dog is protective and sees itself as guard dog to baby, that means that anybody who is perceived to be a danger to the baby-even if they mean NO harm at all- is at risk of dog attacking them.

Small dogs can be dangerous.

People need to remember that dogs need to be trained. NEED to be trained. They need to know they are bottom of the pack in your home. I have two Labradors and they were on the scene for 5 and 6 years before my PFB arrived. They are ex working dogs, trained by me and they know their place. They aren't left alone with PFB and when he's around they blatantly ignore him in the main.

It's not about the breed of dog (although that's obviously a risk factor) it's about taking responsibility for your pet and ensuring that it knows what's ok and what isn't and that it will do as it's told. These things alone elevate you in your dogs eyes and ensure that it knows it's place.

I don't believe there is any risk in having our dogs in the home. I reserve a special kind of contempt for people who rehome their dogs once children come along, it's usually because they never committed the necessary time to training their dogs in the first place.

I do agree with this depending on the breed though.

My parents had a GSD who was the most gentle dog I have ever met. He was bitten on three nose by another dog and just returned to Mum, crying.

He rescued me when I was young and crawled into thick bushes - Mum couldn't get to me and he came in and led me out.

On walks he would track backwards and forwards between us if the family had split into two groups.

He got whacked over the head with a broom handle by my sister when she was just toddling and he responded by grabbing the top of her nappy and pulling her onto her bottom, then walked away.

He only ever stole one toy - a rubber squeaky rabbit, which lasted him 10 years until finally the head feel off due to excessive licking.

He was accidentally shut out of the house once and when my parents realised, much later, he was led on their front lawn, watching cats as they wandered by.

Yet, he was a good guard dog. builders doing work for the next door neighbour jumped over our gate for access and jumped back over just as fast!

He was, quite literally, bomb proof.

I've never met another dog like him.

I agree that training them reduces the chance of attack, however, it doesn't eliminate it completely.

So why take the chance? Surely it's the dog's size in relation to the child's size that matters?

It's daft to leave a child alone with a dog that is twice its size.

OK, a yorkie and a 7-year-old may be fine in the sense that the benefits massively outweigh the risks. I think that that is fine.

I think that people who rehome their dogs when a baby comes along are doing the right thing as no baby stands a chance even against a yorkshire terrier who's having a bad day.

lougle what's so good about it being a good 'guard dog'? If one of those builders hadn't managed to escape and got bitten, there's a good chance that your dog would have been taken away and put down.

lougle, that sounds like an amazing dog, I love stories like that.

When I was growing up my brother had a wonderful GSD. My mum has lots of photos of me as a baby/1/2/3 yr old curled up to her and snuggling with her fluffy tail. There is also a tale of me at about three showing off my new found counting skills by counting Lady's teeth - I swear she has a proper "WTF?" look on her face at finding my hand in her mouth.

She was also a rescuer - when the dog was about 5 my brother and his partner moved into rented accommodation that didn't allow pets. Lady went to live with my brothers PIL in a house that was directly next to an unmanned railway crossing. Within months she would sit right next to the barrier and growl if anyone tried to duck under it (and plenty of idiots do) and if unaccompanied kids appeared anywhere near the crossing she would go bonkers barking until FIL came out of the house and warned the children off.

She was a fabulous dog, lived in comfort with brothers PIL (and 8 kids!) until her end and never, ever gave them any cause for concern (oh, except for the Xmas Eve clearing of the fridge - but we don't talk about that!)

..no one can ever be certain that their dog would never harm anyone, regardless of training, temperament or history. Of course a child should never be left alone with a dog, and all babies should be kept apart from all dogs.

bluedays why would you pick on that one snippet puff a story about an amazing dog?

1. He never bit anyone.

1. He was 'all bark no bite' but if someone was attacking me I'd have been glad if he found his 'bite'.

1. They were intruders on private property - if they got bitten it would have been their own fault for trespassing (legally -morally is debatable).

He would not

I've grown up around dogs and I'm still alive, so is my DS, so are other children in the family. It isn't the dogs but irresponsible dog owners.

Jesus what a daft OP

He would not have been taken and put down - the police (currently, the law may change soon) have no powers to do so.

I have a 7 yo American Cocker Spaniel, ds is 6 months and dd is 2.8. They adore the dog, and he them. But I would never never never leave them alone. The dog is a gentle soul but you just don't know what could happen. I have dog proofed and baby proofed the house. When they are together they are supervised. The kids are being raised to respect animals and also know that not all dogs are as friendly as ours. Children and dogs can be in the same household, but need to be trained - that goes for the kids too. I think the key is to be respectful of all creatures living in the home, be it a dog, cat etc. The breeds that are constantly in the press scare us on walks, we avoid them.

Oh and there are more kids killed by parents than dogs so shall we take all kids away from adults??

More children killed in/by cars so shall we take all vehicles away????

More children killed by disease so shall we keep all kids in decontaminated bubbles???

bluedays, are you seriously saying you only put your DCs into situations where risk has been eliminated?
Giving a child swimming lessons and taking them to a pool with a lifeguard reduces risk of them drowning, but it doesn't eliminate it
Getting on a plane flown by a known airline reduces the risk of it crashing, but doesn't eliminate it

I seriously think MN should start running some sort of distance learning course in statistics, because this sort of crap is trotted out daily by people who have literally no comprehension of measuring risk, but think that their 'smell' test on a situation trumps anyone else's and gives them the right to pull the 'responsible parenting' trump card

As someone said on another thread recently, MN operates in a parallel world of paranoia

Quite right phantom you got the nail on the head, the baby should have never been left alone with the dog especially as they hadnt had the dog very long either and a malumute is a very big and strong dog. I think its ok to have your dog,but make sure you dont leave a young child unattended with it

bluedays Thu 20-Feb-14 08:09:40
"The whole thread brings to mind an old saying:

The fox has to be lucky just the ONCE, the farmer has to be lucky ALL the time

In other words, no matter how careful you are as an owner with a dog and a baby, just the one incident of forgetting to be conscientious and cautious can result in a tragedy"

And how is that different from crossing the road with the baby to buy myself a Mars bar? Are there any benefits from a Mars bar that would outweigh my child being killed or maimed by a car if I had the one incident of forgetting to be cautious? Surely no baby stands a chance against a car driven at 60mph?

People who have dogs and children tend to think there are far greater benefits from growing up round animals than from eating a Mars bar. Yet it's those people who get slated. And the Mars bar eaters are seen as rational and responsible.

Dogs don't need to be left alone with children to attack. They may do so when adults are around and there have been cases when they have done. Do you honestly think an adult could successfully restrain a (large) dog acting on instinct and attacking a baby or child?

It's clear from the comments that some dog owners value their dogs equal to or above their children and have a naive trust in the animals, having no respect for their natural potential to kill or injure, letting dogs cuddle up with babies, play rough with them etc.

A few sensible dog owners have commented too and seem to have followed the expert advice I.e. get a puppy not a dog and not a rescue dog, get the animal after you have a child etc, train them well etc.

Is the consensus though that nothing needs to be done i.e. there will always be stupid or irresponsible people and we should accept that a certain number of children will sadly die due to the choices and actions of the adults responsible for protecting them?

lougle Oh so the fact that legally it would have been OK makes it allright, then? . There are no doubt lots of people e.g. postmen, delivery men, even a lost child who would turn up at your house for one reason or another and your dog would have become aggressive towards them, even bitten them, but it would be OK with you?

ALL dogs -bar specifically-trained guard dogs for private property which, by the way, should have warning signs up everywhere, should be trained to be subservient to all human beings.

Owners that care about their dogs do this because they don't want to see others harmed. They don't want to go down the 'it's private property' line of defence. Even this may not work as the dog could snap, but at least they'd have tried not getting the dog to attack strangers to the home.

No child should be left around an animal that's jaws could possibly do serious damage, it's just common sense.

I like dogs but it's daft as hell to have a dog that can physically see eye-to-eye with a child.

Yorkshire terriers with a 7-year-old seems reasonable.

What are people who have to have dogs supposed to do? Are all farmers banned from having children?

Yanbu. They are shit machines.

There seems to be a lot of hysteria here. Cats can smother babies.