to wonder why anyone with young children would have a dog as a pet or on their home?

[needtobediscreet]

In light of the many incidents of death and injury caused to young children by dogs, even those not previously considered a danger, I can't help but wonder WHY anyone would. The latest seems to involve a six day old baby in west Wales.

Don't get me wrong, I love animals. I grew up with cats and had a pet dog myself when I was in secondary school. But the nicest of dogs can 'turn' it seems and the results are a lot worse than when a cat gets a bit upset.

Clearly in the majority of cases the affected families weren't deliberately neglectful but why take the risk?

I'm prepared for lots of responses from dog owners....!!!

Bang on Aelfrith!

Agree with Aelfrith.

Owning a dog can be life enhancing but they require effort at all times in one way or another.

A dog owner who doesn't recognise that is one who should not have dogs.

Especially a dog that is intelligent, large and has a huge need for serious exercise and stimulation, unless you can meet those needs every day for a decade or more.

Our dog is part of our family and is a huge Labrador. DD joined our family aged 10 months and we were very conscious that he would be unhappy at the loss of his position as our baby. We closely monitored his behaviour towards DD and realised that he accepted her presence. We taught DD from very early in how to behave to him, and stress respect to him and vice versa.

He has time away from DD as she is at nursery and he at daycare a few days a week. But when they are together they play with one another all the time. They tear through the house, playing catch. She feeds him.

I am not stupid. I know he is a dog and a potentially powerful one at that. But he is family. He enriches our lives. His presence in our home has taught DD about respecting and caring for animals, and made her move to our family easier. They are best buddies - when she sleeps over at her grandparents, he sulks.

Non dog people don't tend to understand that relationship. Dog people do. As long as you are responsible, know the risks and manage them sensibly, then I see nothing wrong with pets and young children mixing. Today's story is tragic, and I have nothing but sympathy for that family.

i grew up with dogs in my home we even had a rescue dog a few days before i was born (for those who don't know rescue dogs have no background they don't come from a loving home and they might not get on with children) our dogs were well disciplined and behaved themselves my grandad had a dog put down for being possessive about a baby and growling when people went near the last straw was when the dog bit someone for picking the baby up at feeding time

these days i wouldn't bother having a dog they are bred for looks rather than temperament people breed and breed till the dog is ruined then flog off on facebook you cannot train dogs these days as people think you're cruel i remember training a dog not to run off by throwing old keys in front of the dog it didn't hit the dog didn't hurt the dog just gave the dog a jump so you could regain control in future if the dog attempted to run all i did was rattle keys ive been told (by a dog owner) that it is cruel to do that no one treats their dog like dogs anymore when i was a child you called the dog answered these days i see owners letting their dogs run off they call and call and the damn thing runs out to play in the traffic i hate the cute puppy comparison thing yes springers look sweet as puppies but does anyone realise they stay puppies a long long time (in their heads) dogs are great i love them i just think this country has gone off the flippin rails with them as status symbols handbags etc they are freaking dogs walk them brush them pet them but never forget YOU OWN THEM not the other way around

We 'Inherited' our first dog when DD was about 6 months old. FatJ was a JRT/Corgi. By the time she was a year old the dog slept under her cot. They were inseparable, FatJ taught DD to crawl, walk and shared her Bonios. Whenever I lost DD I knew she'd be in the dogs bed. We were all gutted when we lost her.

We got our second dog from rescue when DD was nearly 5. MuttDog is amazing and has enhanced all our lives. She protects DD, loves her and cuddles up to her in bed.

We got RottDog from rescue when DD was nearly 7, we had her for 2 years then lost her to cancer. She was a pain in the arse, and wasn't DDs dog as much as the Mutt but was still gorgeous, loving and even in the depths of her illness and untimely end, riddled with disease and in pain she never so much as growled at DD.

That description of eaten has really upset me. Thanks for the warning of graphic description OP definitely NOT discreet. :/

Gimme, that's exactly what this thread is about though.
The mother used those words when describing what had happened to her baby. You are a dog lover, have you ever looked at the size of your partner's lab's mouth next to a baby's head?
Of course it's upsetting, that's what some of us are concerned about.
, teeth, small children and unpredictability.

Yes Mothra.

Sorry if you're upset Gimme. It's the headline in many online news stories about the incident.

I read a peer reviewed research paper in a scientific journal about the effects of castration on aggressive dogs. The paper said that the dogs who bite most frequently are cocker spaniels and labradors.

Cocker spaniels and labradors may bite as opposed to shake (like Dobermans) or throttle (like Rottweilers or bull dog types). So maybe although they bite more often they do less damage?

Doesn't make much difference if you are 6 days old.
In 2012, there was an 8 day old baby killed by a jack russell who had nipped past the stairgate the family thought would be a safeguard.

Tululah - interesting.

Good point Mothra. In that tragic case the poor babe killed was 'only' bitten once and the dog was just a little jack russell'.

There are records of huge numbers of dog attacks each year. Only the worst get to the papers and we can assume there are even larger numbers that don't get reported to anyone at all. Royal Mail alone say that in 2008/09, there were 4,810 attacks on staff.

Oh dear. There were 21.7 million households in the UK in 2009, 31% of which owned a dog. A household receives 303 postal deliveries per year. So postmen/women make 2038 million visits per year to households with dogs. And are bitten at a rate of 0.000002 per annum or one in 500,000 visits.

Yup, you're right, it's an absolute deluge .

I've always liked the PO's response.
Have a dog that bites a postman, come and collect your mail from the sorting office.
Allow a child to be bitten due to your negligent management of your dog. what should the consequences be? Or is the % of harm acceptable to you ATM?

Maybe the parents should be prosecuted for negligence? Would you do that to them?

People forget that,on the other side, there are enormous benefits in children growing up with dogs.

Perhaps we should be prosecuting for indicators of this sort of problem! Maybe people not controlling their dogs in public, introducing an authority to identify problem dogs and visit their homes. Random ideas I'm afraid but something needs doing.

Kennel Club spokeswoman v clear on the radio just now - never leave any dog alone with a young child, ever. Not even the family pet.
She also explained the particular issue with young babies. She said that dogs interpret the cries of young babies to be the cries of am injured animal and due to instinct, the dog intervenes to 'finish it off' (apologies for any offence but those were her words and it was a live interview). She said even if not left alone with a young baby, dogs should not have access to them either.

Because the stats for children being killed by their parents, at one every 10 days ( 30 a year) contrast well with the report in the Telegraph in November last year that at that sime there were 17 deaths caused by dogs since 2005. Far more risky for a child to have parents than a dog.

I cannot imagine a home without a dog. When DS1 & 2 were born we had a collie cross and a dachshund, they were in teh next room for my home birth with DS2 and joined us minutes after he was born. I would never have left the children unsupervised with the dogs until they were old enough to play outside together. My present lovely elderly Staffie, who is gentle and kind with everyone he meets was chucked out by his owner because his wife wouldn't combine dogs and children, he would have been killed if we all followed OPs line.

I didn't have the statistics, higgle, but I felt sure there must be far more children killed by their parents than the family pet.

higgle - I'm not saying that we can protect children against all risk but assessments are made - or in theory should be - of parents who may pose a risk to their children and action is taken, though sadly not early enough and not in all cases. No such assessments are made of dogs in homes with children as far as I'm aware.
It's also about minimising risk as far as possible. Personally, rehoming an adult staffie who may not be used to children into a home with young children is a risk that I personally would not take. Hopefully an alternative and suitable home for the unwanted dog could be found but if not then I'd rather my kids not be at risk. Everyone perceives and manages risk differently though.

Not an expert view but I do wonder if some dogs just don't know what a baby is when it arrives, I did worry about that when I brought DS 1 home from hospital - more from the point of view of the dogs being upset than his safety. With DS2 they seemed very aware of him being a little human, perhaps they understood he had just been bor to us in the next room. Children are now grown up so our Staffie doesn't meet any, though he does get petted in the pub sometimes by a small child and I'm always pleased when he does not encounter prejudice due to his breed.

Agree with Turps, there are many, many homes with dogs and relatively few incidents of dogs inflicting serious injuries. Our now ancient dog was a rescue dog and he had issues around food which meant he wasn't good around kids - he was always snapping at anyone who came near him if he was eating and DP took him in as this wasn't a good mix with DP's brother's kids. 15 years later, doggy is well over this as DP showed him no one was going to take his food away and he has a lovely temperament. He is great with kids and friends and family, including children, love him.

We have a dog. In 7yrs he has not attacked any of us.

You could wonder why people use cars, as far more of those crash, than dogs attack.