To think Alex Salmond is in his own private dream world?

[SpineInABap]

Ok so Alex Salmond wants an independent Scotland, and sets out his ideas.

Then all three Westminster parties tell him - "no you can't share the pound and be independent as well, it would be too unstable. Did you see what happened in Europe when they tried to share a currency between different countries with different economic policies? And those countries were trying to become more united, and in this case the two countries would be trying to split apart!"

Then a guy from the European Union remarks that it won't be plain sailing for an Independent Scotland to join the EU, as all the other members will have to agree - and many won't as they don't want to encourage their own splinter states to start asking for independence as well.

So two fairly serious problems. And what is Alex Salmon's reaction? Basically to go "Ner ner ner, you're all being mean and nasty and you don't really mean it. I think that if we all vote yes for an independent Scotland, then you will change your mind and let us share the pound, and let us join the EU. You're bluffing, and so I'm not coming up with a plan for what would happen if Scotland voted yes and we realised that, oops no...you weren't bluffing".

How can anyone think this man does not sound a bit bonkers? I'm English, but if I was Scottish I would be very worried about voting for someone who thinks nothing of destabilising a whole economy just to make a Political point.

Alex Salmon wants independence at any price so he's willing to lie and bluff to get his own way and persuade the Scots to vote yes. Im sure the SNP are thinking they're work out what to do the the currency etc once the vote is in. If I was Scottish I'll be very worried about the uncertainty and will have a get out plan B myself in case it all hits the fan.

Enough with referring to scots as whinging. It's pathetic. We have a major decision to make and every right to discuss it and ask questions.

Ffs

Out of interest why would Scotland be better off out of the UK?

Is it so that policies and taxation can then be tailored to Scotland's needs as opposed to the UK as a whole and does that outweigh the benefits of the economies of scale that being in the UK brings?

I agree Tiggytape

tiggytape will Devo Max ever be put to the vote or is this referendum the final question on it?

Im Scottish living in England so don't get a say buy Yanbu he's a loon and considering his position a dangerous one.

Not particularly useful contribution from myself but am at work

StatisticallyChallenged Tue 18-Feb-14 14:24:30
Confer for many people those are vital questions and the solutions represent the difference between a successful country and one plunged in to poverty and recession. Not being in the eu would be a pretty big deal given that the majority of our trade is currently with the eu member states and the additional taxes and duties that would apply to our goods would potentially price us out of the market

Actually I think it highly unlikely that Scotland would end up in that situation even if they aren't in the EU. As I said before both Norway and Iceland do not have most of these taxes as they are part of the EEA but not the EU. It wouldn't be in the best interests of the EU to enforce them on Scotland. Although it is not an absolute given, it is highly likely - especially due to the geographical issue with the UK. It certainly would be much less problematic to negotiate membership. I can't see why anyone would have objection to it, as it stops the need for all the paperwork or potential loss of business. The alternative would be virtually unworkable in that it would be very difficult , if not impossible, to police the border, hence why it would seem like the most logical result.

However Scotland as part of the EEA would have to comply with EU trading regulations, but would have no say what so ever in what these were.

The effect would be even less power over trade than Scotland currently has. In theory new laws over the sale of key Scottish products could come in and there would be no one to fight them. For example, someone could come up with the bullshit that all Whiskey must be bottled and traded in square bottles of no more than 50mls under EU law and there would be nothing Scotland could do if they objected to it. (Stupid example but you get the idea). In voting for independence, you could end up in a situation with less influence over the national interest than you do in the Union. Ironic but nevertheless a define possibility.

Given the Norwegian president has come out and said explicitly that the UK would be foolish to vote to leave the EU in a referendum because of the lack of influence Norway has over its own trade its a point thats definitely worth listening to in terms of the difference between EEA and EU.

Thank you Favourite and Statisically.

Bit surprised by: "...scotland really not important looking from an EU perspective (neither is the UK as its still pretty small)* given that the UK is the EU's third-largest economy by GDP.

Calloh Tue 18-Feb-14 15:39:07
Out of interest why would Scotland be better off out of the UK?

Is it so that policies and taxation can then be tailored to Scotland's needs as opposed to the UK as a whole and does that outweigh the benefits of the economies of scale that being in the UK brings?

In theory. In practice due to the way that Independence is currently being proposed without the proper thought process and consideration behind it, the structures which would enable this would not be in place to make it work. Hence my belief that more needed to be done before calling a referendum on independence.

I think realistically, Salmond himself would have preferred there to have been a referendum on Devo Max as an interim step to complete independence but Cameron basically said "shit or get off the pot" & forced the referendum question/timescale.

Thanks RTB

Out of interest why would Scotland be better off out of the UK?

Scotland is an economically wealthy country. If Scotland were to gain independence the people of Scotland would then vote in their own Government, a Government that would then be run with Scotland's best interests at the centre.

In a nutshell that is why a lot of the people in favour of the yes campaign are voting that way.

angela - I don't think we have that much leverage as we are not part of the euro and not politically at the heart of Europe.

OK, understood.

So MrsM you agreed with what I put later; Scotland could tailor it's taxation and policies to meet it's own needs.

The benefits of this would outweigh the loss of economies of scale on things like defence, passports etc.

Thanks tiggy.

Can I ask a question for people up in Scotland about the Yes Campaign?

Down here (in Yorkshire) it seems that the entire Yes campaign is being run by the SNP & Alex Salmon but I presume that if Scotland gets independence there'll be other political parties. Are you hearing more from these parties or is there a similar monopoly that we're seeing?

Yup indeed, locally our Yes group has SNP voters & members, Labour Party members & voters, Green Party, Socialist party and many people with no party affiliation.

Patrick Harvie from the Green Party is a good strong voice in the campaign.

I think the AV vote was somewhat farcical in the sense that it was a Lib Dem proposal and so many Lib Dem voters hated the idea of the coalition because it meant that so many of their beliefs had to be compromised with - precisely what they would have got with PR. The criticism of going for an AV vote rather than a PR vote were therefore somewhat incomprehensible! It only went to prove that so many people who said they believed in PR really didn't understand what that meant in principle otherwise they wouldn't have objected to the coalition!

I feel that in essence that the Scottish Independence vote is much the same. People like the idea but have no clue what that would actually mean in practice and would hate the reality!

Thanks FannyFifer - We get quite a one-sided view of it here but I was sure that it had to be broader than that otherwise you'd only get SNP voters voting yes, surely? (Or at least significantly fewer than with cross-party consensus)

We have no Conservatives though bit they would be more than welcome.