To think Alex Salmond is in his own private dream world?

[SpineInABap]

Ok so Alex Salmond wants an independent Scotland, and sets out his ideas.

Then all three Westminster parties tell him - "no you can't share the pound and be independent as well, it would be too unstable. Did you see what happened in Europe when they tried to share a currency between different countries with different economic policies? And those countries were trying to become more united, and in this case the two countries would be trying to split apart!"

Then a guy from the European Union remarks that it won't be plain sailing for an Independent Scotland to join the EU, as all the other members will have to agree - and many won't as they don't want to encourage their own splinter states to start asking for independence as well.

So two fairly serious problems. And what is Alex Salmon's reaction? Basically to go "Ner ner ner, you're all being mean and nasty and you don't really mean it. I think that if we all vote yes for an independent Scotland, then you will change your mind and let us share the pound, and let us join the EU. You're bluffing, and so I'm not coming up with a plan for what would happen if Scotland voted yes and we realised that, oops no...you weren't bluffing".

How can anyone think this man does not sound a bit bonkers? I'm English, but if I was Scottish I would be very worried about voting for someone who thinks nothing of destabilising a whole economy just to make a Political point.

I can't know exactly what was said as obviously you haven't detailed however it still sounds more xenophobic than racist to be honest.

I appreciate that there is xenophobia and racism within Scotland but no more so than England, Wales or Ireland. I have friends from all backgrounds and I haven't heard a single one of them saying that they have suffered more because of "nationalism" in Scotland.

Obviously everyone has different experiences and it's a shame that your friends have suffered however it doesn't reflect Scotland as a whole.

I am proud of my heritage, I am proud of my country, I am fiercely patriotic. You could call me a nationalist but it doesn't make me ignorant, racist or xenophobic. To say that the movement for Independence has increased discrimination is wrong IMO. Unfortunately there are always going to be people that are inclined to think that way but I don't think it has worsened and I certainly don't think it is worse than in other parts of the UK.

fanny - we are still the United Kingdom with or without Scotland. we are still England, wales and n Ireland.

Not really though as UK refers to the two kingdoms of Scotland & England.

I would hope protecting Scotland's NHS will be written into our constitution.

Hope?! Your decision for voting Yes is primarily based on something you 'hope' will happen?!

It is sounding more and more to me like the Yes voters are quite happy to end up in a totally fucked nation as long as they can say they chose to be in that situation, rather than being in a safer position where they have less autonomy.

Interesting article re EU from John Palmer who is a former European editor of the Guardian and former political director of the European Policy Centre. He is visiting practitioner fellow at Sussex University's European Institute
and a member of the Governing Council of the Federal Trust.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/feb/17/barroso-scotland-ludicrous-remarks?CMP=twt_gu

Now you've raised the an important question here -the media's involvement! The BBC, that had a reputation for fairness, is now known in many parts of Scotland as the Biased Broadcasting Corporation. Even an independent study published earlier this year has proved the lack of impartiality shown by the BBC regarding the Independence Referrenfum. Many get their news from other sources like Sky - who incidently showed the First Ministers speech yesterday in its entirety including questions at the end. BBC Scotland on the other hand showed less than a minute of the actual speech and gave the rest of the slot over to the No campaign.
Three UK Govt ministers recently had press conferences on the referrendum, all were covered in their entirety by the BBC, and in total only three questions were taken - none from Scottish journalists.

I am simply not economically literate enough (shamed) to comment on the currency debate beyond saying having a Scottish pound pegged to sterling would be a fairly easy solution, no?

But does anyone really believe Scotland would not be admitted to the EU? A stable, democratic, affluent state that had been in the EU for decades while part of a larger country? Surely it would, it is just a question of how long it would take if any current member decided to drag its feet on approving membership for its own political reasons.

FannyFifer Tue 18-Feb-14 14:48:01
Not really though as UK refers to the two kingdoms of Scotland & England.

right so you think

(1) we should change our name because

Nope didn't say any of that.

But Scotland HASN'T been in the EU for decades, the UK has. If Scotland choose to leave the UK, they become a new country. Just like various ex Soviet states have in the past 20 years.

That's how I understand it, anyway, I may be wrong.

Scottish parliament already does all if can to protect NHS, can only get even better.

www.rcpe.ac.uk/sites/default/files/white_paper_on_independence_26_nov_2013_rcpe_summary.pdf

Oh gawd! FannyFifers onto the emeshing of propaganda by "interesting article link".

Because all those misguided people just cannot make up their own minds and need to read further propaganda to ensure they fall into line.

The last "interesting article" I read criticised the No campaign for being "horrid and nasty"!

I seem to recall some blatant Soviet-style Communist "interesting articles" linked in the past by the same posters on a similar debate.

But does anyone really believe Scotland would not be admitted to the EU? A stable, democratic, affluent state that had been in the EU for decades while part of a larger country?

yes.
its very small.
admitting it will encourage other nationalist separatists.
scotland really not important looking from an EU perspective (neither is the UK as its still pretty small)

also its an unknown how economically stable it will be as an independent nation (large expensive banking sector and talk of not paying debts)

Scottish nationalists need to get that they would be a tiny nation globally and outside the UK, not really relevant. (the Uk is not that relevant either just a bit more so, being relatively larger and richer)

I wish Scotland would go independent! I am sick of all their whining!

Just when Im on the verge of wavering and voting No along comes someone like you, thanks!

I'm a Scot who has been living in England for eighteen years so won't be voting.

If I were to have the vote, I couldn't countenance voting yes when I wouldn't have a clue what I was actually voting for on a practical basis. I can appreciate that were Scotland to vote in favour of Independence that there would be 'i's to dot and 't's to cross, but there is such a dearth of fundamental practical information that the "yes" campaign are giving the impression that they've barely started to think of the alphabet, far less the little embelishments and curlicues that complete it.

I think Member has hit the nail on the head. How anyone could vote yes when the bare basics have yet to be worked out is beyond me. I would think that at best it's a dangerous gamble, at worst, a recipe for disaster.

It's a shame that as a Scot living in England you're not eligible to vote.

How does it work with non-Scots who are currently living in Scotand then? Do they get to vote?

The vote is open to:-

British citizens resident in Scotland.
Commonwealth citizens resident in Scotland who have leave to remain in the UK or do not require such leave.
Citizens of the Republic of Ireland and other EU countries resident in Scotland.
Members of the House of Lords resident in Scotland.
Service personnel serving in the UK or overseas with the armed forces who are registered to vote in Scotland.
Crown personnel serving outside the UK with HM Government who are registered to vote in Scotland.

The key difference from normal voting arrangements is that the minimum age for voting in the referendum will be 16 instead of 18. This means that people who will be 16 years old by 18 September 2014, and are otherwise eligible, can register to vote.

I totally agree with member which is why I have been keen to hear a cohesive argument from the Yes camp but it seems it actually is all based on a mixture of anti-English vitriol and an insane 'on a wing and a prayer' mentality. Scary!

Angeladavies pegging to another currency can be very difficult. It could work but it could be a disaster and right now it's not even being discussed sensibly. Black Wednesday back in 92 was at least partially caused by the UK being pegged by the exchange rate mechanism and struggling to maintain it.

It is possible that Scotland would not get in to the eu-or at least that it could take a very long time. Eu accession is a long process at the best of times- Croatia took 10 years to become a member and it's not expected to get euro adoption before 2019 so a total of 16 years.

Not saying that this makes it impossible but the way eu membership has been presented as a done deal is frankly crazy. We should be allowed to make a decision based on the facts and we're not getting them.

We can't get the definitive answer on the EU as Westminster will not ask for it.
Scottish Government can not make representations itself and have asked numerous times for UK Govt to get the answer.
They won't.

I hope Scotland stays. I have nothing clever or economically stunning to add to this. But I like Scotland and most Scots. I think of myself as British rather than English and most people I know have a mix of English, Welsh and Scot in them.

But when I was at uni in Aberdeen about 10 years ago I did encounter tons of anti-English sentiment that could be pretty grim and abusive. I do think that with the lowering of the voting age the election could be influenced by feelings of soaring patriotism and bitter xenophobia but that doesn't mean I think everyone who thinks yes is like that.

I think AS argues I quite short, sound bite kind of way but doesn't necessarily address all the issues and that is why it can appear that it is not all clearly thought out.

If the Scots want independence then to my mind let them have it. That means all the responsibity of running your own currency and all the things that go with it. Passports, postal service, BBC, border control to name just a few things they can do without.

You can't just pick and choose. For Salmon it is an ego trip. I am no fan of Cameron, or any other leader, but they are forcing the issue and I don't get why the Scots think we will be bluffing on currency, its their choice. Stop whinging if you want true independence.

sussexmum

A move for independence is class as "whinging" now? What a profound post yours is