To think Alex Salmond is in his own private dream world?

[SpineInABap]

Ok so Alex Salmond wants an independent Scotland, and sets out his ideas.

Then all three Westminster parties tell him - "no you can't share the pound and be independent as well, it would be too unstable. Did you see what happened in Europe when they tried to share a currency between different countries with different economic policies? And those countries were trying to become more united, and in this case the two countries would be trying to split apart!"

Then a guy from the European Union remarks that it won't be plain sailing for an Independent Scotland to join the EU, as all the other members will have to agree - and many won't as they don't want to encourage their own splinter states to start asking for independence as well.

So two fairly serious problems. And what is Alex Salmon's reaction? Basically to go "Ner ner ner, you're all being mean and nasty and you don't really mean it. I think that if we all vote yes for an independent Scotland, then you will change your mind and let us share the pound, and let us join the EU. You're bluffing, and so I'm not coming up with a plan for what would happen if Scotland voted yes and we realised that, oops no...you weren't bluffing".

How can anyone think this man does not sound a bit bonkers? I'm English, but if I was Scottish I would be very worried about voting for someone who thinks nothing of destabilising a whole economy just to make a Political point.

I do worry when pro independence people talk of a getting rid of Cameron and the Tories as a sound reason for independence. Cameron, like all politicians is here today, gone tomorrow. The Tories can easily be voted out. Independence is forever

I also find it hilarious when people suggest the English post independence will have a Tory government for ever and won't that be dreadful. Well I thought we were living in a democracy and that if the Tories rule forever that rather suggests that most people want that...

Salmond seems to be campaigning on a ya boo tory toff bullies strategy and avoiding many difficult questions. The Scots deserve thought through answers to these questions not "it'll be all right on the night/jam tomorrow responses".

I think a yes vote would be wrong, but respect that might happen. I would just hate it to come to pass for the wrong reason and be regretted.

In terms of becoming independent, there are also unresolved issues over international and domestic bureaucracy. Many laws now, both north and south of the border are due to European law - they do not exist in English or Scottish law. If Scotland isn't part of the EU, it creates a problem - there may be gaps which need to be resolved by the Scottish courts and going forward they would not be subject to EU law, so may have gaps that they have to deal with independently.

I find it worrying that a lot of protections afforded by EU law (and indeed international Human Rights law) which are directly effective would on independence no longer be part of Scots law. We would have no civil laws making sexual or racial or disability discrimination in the workplace illegal, no laws on equal pay, nothing to preserve the right in statute to freedom to contract (therefore a Scots government could pass all sorts of laws restricting what contracts an individual could enter into). What I think you would get is law-making on the fly by local authorities, excused as being their interpretation of how the law should be - this already happens to some extent and is regarded as a feature of the Scots system.

As a Scots lawyer, my take on it is that Scotland would not be part of the EU on independence, as Treaty obligations require unanimity of member states on accession issues. (I think the White Paper implicitly acknowledges this on tuition fees as such a policy would be a clear breach of EU law against illegal state aid - but its not going to be an issue because an independent Scotland wouldn't be in the EU for many years).

So if you want to work in the EU in future without getting a Visa, best to plan ahead where you want to be registered to vote when the referendum comes around...

I already have Polish friends who are leaving before the referendum because they can't bear living here any more, and have suffered racism

First off it's not racism it's xenophobia.

And I have Polish friends who have lived in various parts of the UK and think that the level of xenophobia is less in Scotland than in other areas.

Do you honestly think that Polish people suffer more xenophobia in Scotland than in any other part of the UK? Are you really that ignorant?

mateysmum I do worry when pro independence people talk of a getting rid of Cameron and the Tories as a sound reason for independence. Cameron, like all politicians is here today, gone tomorrow. The Tories can easily be voted out. Independence is forever.
I also find it hilarious when people suggest the English post independence will have a Tory government for ever and won't that be dreadful. Well I thought we were living in a democracy and that if the Tories rule forever that rather suggests that most people want that

Its becoming so intolerant in parts of Scotland that saying things like the Tory party should be banned post independence has become a sort of orthodox viewpoint, and you feel sort of discouraged from pointing out that political intolerance isn't a good trait and the Tory party is in fact a mainstream party which currently forms government, voted for by more people than comprise the Scottish population.

There are countries in the world where political intolerance is encouraged - would you or I want to live in one of them willingly?

I'm sad to hear what you say "LesMissAbs" and it really just emphasises my point. Let's hope that the majority of Scots cast their vote having considered the real issues and consequences of a Yes vote and not on an anti Tory short term view.

It is often the case that those who shriek most loudly for freedom wish to secure that freedom by banning those who disagree with them - in the name of "tolerance".

Mrs Magnificent I already have Polish friends who are leaving before the referendum because they can't bear living here any more, and have suffered racism. First off it's not racism it's xenophobia

How can you possibly know what someone else has had said to them? FWIW I think when someone comments on FB that they are growing increasingly uncomfortable with living in Scotland because of all the nationalism about and that attracts personal messages (which I have seen) along the lines of "Then go back to Poland you Polish scum and stop stealing our jobs" that does meet the legal definitions of racism. I won't go into how it has affected them in the workplace, but as a neutral observer I'm also convinced that it has done. We once shared a strongly SNP boss who asked job interviewees their views on Scottish independence and I know what he can be like.

I am very grateful for the input from other parts of the UK as regards this important issue to affect Scotland come September this year. By all means continue with this vitriol against an elected politician who leads a party that forms a government with a majority in a parliament that was designed in a way so that no party could have a majotity. So he has popular support in Scotland.
That attitude displayed in some of the postings on this thread shows that the Unionist side are losing the argument, by resorting to name calling, misinforming and bullying you have lost the plot and the argument.
The Yes side of the debate have shown nothing but a positive case for Independence whereas the No campaign has to stoop to name calling, misinformation, and blatant lies. For a fair size majority of Yes voters membership of the EU and sharing Sterling does not matter one jot. What is most important to us is the fact that we the Scots will be able to make our own decisions, mistakes and solutions to problems and can longer blame someone else for the mess we are in.
My own opinion on these questions is that they should be kept for the Scottish people to decide after Independence. The Union is dead.

I'm pretty sure SM won't give you any answers so you might as well quit asking.

Looks like you're right highlandermam, but isn't it more than a little bit perplexing that not one post on this thread explains what the Yes voters have actually based their decision on, aside from just wanting to be independent of rUK.

confer I just want to live in a country which doesn't have "sides".

And in a country which has an education system which teaches its people to be tolerant and not make totalitarian pronouncements, such as the one you just attempted to make.

Perplexing? Yes I guess so Bearbehind

I haven't lived in Scotland for 10 years nearly now, I'd be doing a lot of research if I were still there in order to decide what to vote. As it is I can't be arsed. Too much to look into. Got better things to do.

We'll all just have to wait and see what happens, won't we?

Trident no longer being on our soil & protecting the NHS are top of my list for voting Yes.

Confer for many people those are vital questions and the solutions represent the difference between a successful country and one plunged in to poverty and recession. Not being in the eu would be a pretty big deal given that the majority of our trade is currently with the eu member states and the additional taxes and duties that would apply to our goods would potentially price us out of the market.

Genuine question fannyfifer - how will the NHS be better protected by an independent Scotland?

Would it not be a whole new NHS? The SNHS?

The Yes side of the debate have shown nothing but a positive case for Independence

The Yes campaign has produced a massive wish list of what it would like to happen; as much of this relies on co-operation from other states, which may or may not be forthcoming, it remains a wish list rather than any sort of realistic plan.

I'm afraid John Swinney lost any credibility for me when he was challenged by the BBC on unrealistic proposals and contingency plans and his only reply was "this is what we want to happen".

confer The Union is dead.

we are still a union without Scotland. you are only 1 part of the UK. and a small part at that.

I think its right that Scotland gets a vote on independence, and I will be sorry if you do vote Yes. its a big world out there and IMO neither nation will benefit.

but you aren't the only people who get to chose: (1) I don't want a currency union with an independent Scotland for all the economic reasons outlined (2) you wont get to join the EU as you are tiny and unimportant in the grand scheme of things and the big players have more to lose by letting you join.

I apologies for 'sides' analogy, which isvin fact a british invention, you know divide and rule attitude. Scotland is not a totaltarian society and it never will be. It was ingenious of you yo suggest that. The fact that one party managed to get a majority in a parliament by PR will show you the strength of feeling the Scots have regarding how they are governed.
I too long to live in a society where all are equal. That will not be achieved by remaining in a Union that was never meant to be a partnership of equals. I hope that the new Scotland will not be a copy of the failed Westminster system. There is a great opportunity to have concensus government in Scotland once it is Independent, we should grasp this chance!

Every country new or otherwise relies on cooperation from other countries. Why should Scotland be different.

NHS Scotland is already separate.

The more NHS England is privatised it has a roll on effect to the funding available to Scotland's NHS.

I would hope protecting Scotland's NHS will be written into our constitution.

Its becoming so intolerant in parts of Scotland that saying things like the Tory party should be banned post independence has become a sort of orthodox viewpoint, and you feel sort of discouraged from pointing out that political intolerance isn't a good trait and the Tory party is in fact a mainstream party which currently forms government, voted for by more people than comprise the Scottish population

LessMissAbs, where on earth did you hear this? Can you link?

FWIW, the majority of Scots not voting Tory does not make Scotland politically intolerant. It means the Tories' policies do not reflect, for most people, what Scots want. We wouldn't NEED to ban them, we'd just continue doing as we do and not voting for them. Which equals democracy. To suggest totalitarianism is, frankly, insulting to people who have or have had to live under those regimes. I know quite a few. Scotland is bloody paradise to them.

The Union refers to the union between Scotland & England, two sovereign nations.

As far as I can remember my history the Act of Union 1707, the one in question today, was between Scotland and England. There was a further act inn1801 that included Ireland.

Poor Wales was already included as being part of England at that point I believe.