To think Alex Salmond is in his own private dream world?

[SpineInABap]

Ok so Alex Salmond wants an independent Scotland, and sets out his ideas.

Then all three Westminster parties tell him - "no you can't share the pound and be independent as well, it would be too unstable. Did you see what happened in Europe when they tried to share a currency between different countries with different economic policies? And those countries were trying to become more united, and in this case the two countries would be trying to split apart!"

Then a guy from the European Union remarks that it won't be plain sailing for an Independent Scotland to join the EU, as all the other members will have to agree - and many won't as they don't want to encourage their own splinter states to start asking for independence as well.

So two fairly serious problems. And what is Alex Salmon's reaction? Basically to go "Ner ner ner, you're all being mean and nasty and you don't really mean it. I think that if we all vote yes for an independent Scotland, then you will change your mind and let us share the pound, and let us join the EU. You're bluffing, and so I'm not coming up with a plan for what would happen if Scotland voted yes and we realised that, oops no...you weren't bluffing".

How can anyone think this man does not sound a bit bonkers? I'm English, but if I was Scottish I would be very worried about voting for someone who thinks nothing of destabilising a whole economy just to make a Political point.

Theri there is a huge difference between notes not being accepted and not having any control of our currency. Assuming that the position didnt change and there was no formal currency union then trying to run the economy whilst using the pound would be a bit like trying to drive a car with your left hand tied behind your back. Just about possible when the road is straight but really reduces the control you have and eventually you'll hit some ice and wind up upside down in the ditch.

No currency control is a huge problem. And the euro isn't much of a solution if we are not allowed to join the eu!

I think Alex needs to come up with a plan b and quickly.

We aren't keeping the £. It is not happening.

If, like Salmond claims, we won't accept any of the national debt then we will never be able to borrow any money (who would be insane enough to lend?) and all countries run on a deficit.

Spain may well stop us joining the European Union. In the off chance we are new members must adopt the Euro.

We need answers not bluster. And fast.

Thanks for posting that blog link tharsheblows. Very informative.

Exactly crackfox. These are not fringe issues. They're huge problems which no real solutions are being proposed for.

And lalalala I don't believe you just isn't good enough.

And I have been told (by a supermarket checkout worker) that I can go home once the Scots get independence

Does that mean those people who call themselves scottish who live in the rest of the uk will be asked to leave their jobs and move back to Scotland given that inbetween independence and becoming a member of the EU they will become illegal immigrants and so will not be able to work in the rest of the uk?

I'm fascinated by people like scottishmummy who pop up and and say name calling isn't nice but that seems to be the extent of their defensive on AS's stance. It's like a weird cult or something where the believers blindly follow without questioning anything.

Scotland could have own arrangements like rest of the commonwealth has with England-remainingUK. So no need to mass deport.

I almost can't believe Scots will vote for this. They conservative group with small c as a group. Too many unknowns.

I love politics,I love discussing politics.people name calling politicians isn't a discussion
For example Saying Boris has bouffant hair would be inadequate discussion of London politics
Saying AS is bonkers isn't adequate discussion of devolution. It's lame,lacks rigour.

How much influence does Scotland currently have on the setting of interest rates?

Would it be significantly different if using a pegged currency?

'Salmon has always lived in his own dream world!'

The few politicians that don't are rare and exotic creatures.

The problem with a pegged currency is that if the UKs economy is overheating they will put up interest rates whilst, simultaneously, Scotland's economy may well be in the toilet (or vice versa). The Bank of England will be devoted to looking after UKs best interest and Scotland will be gluing itself to it.

Seem madness. Why doesn't Salmond come up with a better idea because, frankly, pegging is a rubbish idea.

Does that mean those people who call themselves scottish who live in the rest of the uk will be asked to leave their jobs and move back to Scotland given that inbetween independence and becoming a member of the EU they will become illegal immigrants and so will not be able to work in the rest of the uk?

Annie I don't know, this is just one of many things that will be a big headache to sort out.

That is my reply to anyone who thinks I shouldn't be here – presumably that means they think all Scots working in London/wherever should come home forthwith. But so far, Scots like having the right to go to London - not to mention being massively effective in London-centred UK politics. It's actually remarkable how Scottish-dominated that arena has been.

I hope I would be able to remain British/English and living in Scotland, because I might want to go back one day. I don't know about the many, many Scottish people living elsewhere. I'm very pro-immigration and I think free movement / living and working anywhere is a good thing, but if Scotland was not linked to the UK or in the EU maybe those freedoms wouldn't apply? It seems odd to me that I get a vote at all, as I'm English and would prefer to still "belong" to England politically.

Holey at the moment decisions on interest rates and monetary supply are taken with consideration of the UK as a whole. There is undeniably variance between regions but not to anything like the extent that there would be if Scotland was entirely independent. Decisions would then be taken by the boe with consideration only for the rUK. Those decisions could be completely adverse for Scotland as we just would not factor in.

Let's say for example that some big companies decidedto pull out of Scotland big banks etc who employ huge numbers directly and indirectly contribute to the employment of thousands more. They all move to England. As a result Scottish house prices slide dramatically but English ones go up. Boe decides inflation and house prices are getting too high and raises interest rates. That would be potentially catastrophic for Scotland but they would be under zero obligation to factor the impact on Scotland in.

ProfundoRosso so maybe you should have a greater understanding of how nationalism can have an over-riding effect?

I take your point, Megrim, but why do we not have Scots all over MN saying they believe Scotland should be independent because Scots are sick of anti-Scottish sentiment in rUk?

It only ever seems to be English, unionist posters who refer to anti-English sentiment as a major factor in the way Scots vote. What about Scottish, unionist posters? Are they choosing the union DESPITE being aware of anti-Scottish sentiment south of the border? Or do they not consider it an issue when it comes to governance?

For example Saying Boris has bouffant hair would be inadequate discussion of London politics
Saying AS is bonkers isn't adequate discussion of devolution. It's lame,lacks rigour

I'm with you on that, SM

Personally I have come across plenty of anti Scottish sentiment when travelling down south for work but I think that you always get regional rivalries whether between countries, counties or towns and I don't consider it a reason to declare independence.

There's just as much negativity between Glasgow and Edinburgh ime and I wouldn't suggest sticking a border half way down the m8 ;)

I absolutely agree, Statistically. And I don't understand why some posters assume that anti-English sentiment is invariably behind a Yes vote.

I think it is absurd that this close to the referendum, AS does not appear to have come up with a solid plan for the currency and EU membership

Which begs the question - what else has he not quite figured out yet? I'm guessing there are quite a few other important aspects to running a country.

And his response to Westminster's, and the EU's assertions that an independent scotland will indeed not be allowed to keep the pound or join the EU - which was essentially to say that he doesn't believe them and it will all be ok in the end... is frankly bizarre.

So I ask this of those people on this thread who are trying to derail the argument:

1. Are you confident in your potential future leader's ability to lead Scotland, given that he has so far failed to sort out the basic stuff like what currency you will have?

1. If, come September, you win the Yes vote, but AS's prediction that everyone is bluffing about the pound and the EU turns out to be wrong.... then what?

I, personally, wouldn't feel comfortable voting for something which hinges much of it's success on simply hoping that people might change their mind and didn't mean what they said really and it will all be ok in the end...

Because MN is only a very small cross-section of people and not necessarily representative. I have stayed in both Glasgow and Aberdeen, and when it comes to attitudes you might as well be in different countries. Go to Shetland and you'll find they feel closer to Norway than to Scotland.

Speaking as someone who grew up in Ireland, and now lives in the UK, with enormous affection and pride in my home country, I think it would be a mistake for Scotland to go independent - but if they do then, just like Ireland they (and Alex Salmon) have to face the fact that after the transition phase they need to be completely independant, and that includes losing the link with the UK pound.

Admit I don't know what to think. Live in London. DP Scots. See arguments on both sides but dread the mess that it would become.
Would my DC have dual nationality? As Annie said, would my DP have "immigrant status" in London?

The EU question is a serious one and cannot just be dismissed. The arguments don't seem to have been put very well on either side to be honest.

So someone from Ireland, a country which became independent thinks another country shouldn't.
Do you think Ireland should be back under London rule?

Also Ireland kept the pound for a very long time.

I love politics,I love discussing politics.people name calling politicians isn't a discussion

So why have you not put across your defence to AS's stance scottishmummy? Why do you think it is acceptable for him to have no other plan for a currency in an independent Scotland, than the hope everyone else is bluffing.