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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to ask so what if people think that?

259 replies

pinkbluegreenyellow · 17/02/2014 07:59

Friend recently had a baby boy. Her DH goes on about how 'strong' he is, how big and tall, how much bigger than other baby boys he is. Fine. He is a big guy himself.

What irks is any suggestion that his son might, god forbid, appear 'girly' to others. For example, his son was gifted a t shirt that had a pink stripe in it. It's being given to charity as 'no son of mine wears pink. Don't want you being mistaken for a girl'. Friend's cousin allows her small ds to dress up in both cowboy and princess outfits and this is met with a sneer too.

Leaving aside the notion that pink is for girls, I want to shout so fucking what if people think he's a girl?? Like being a girl is weak and pathetic? I get that you might want people to assign the correct gender to your child but is there the same fear attached to people thinking your child might be a boy? As in , I can't dress her in blue, I don't want people to think she's a boy?

OP posts:
Ilovexmastime · 17/02/2014 15:43

I would if that's what she wanted Nataleejah. That's the thing see, we're not forcing our DC to wear certain things in order to dilute their gender (???), we're letting them wear what they want to wear.

Joysmum · 17/02/2014 15:54

You can pass on tolerance by allowing your children to express themselves, of course you can, but you also need to pass on the realization that being right and your choices will also leave you exposed to the people who are intolerant.

People can and do judge, we see it all the time on mumsnet and real life is no different.

I will not wage a crusade through my child. My child is old enough now to know that I value her individuality and the world might too and how this can be to her advantage. She also knows that the works is full of sheep and if she feels exposed and unable to blaze her own trail, she needs to fit in. It's her choice. We aren't all strong enough to take it like water off a ducks back and she needs to know it's ok to do what she feels is right and will be judged either for confirming (as if she happens to like pink and dolls she's accused of being wrong because it reinforces her gender), or blazing her own path.

MrsOakenshield · 17/02/2014 15:57

I actually can't read any more of this victim-blaming bullshit.

have a read of this and maybe you'll think again

ChaosTrulyReigns · 17/02/2014 16:03

The reason for this would be because bullying is devastating. It can ruin lives. So why PROVIDE something for other children to mock and laugh at

Utterly victim blaming.

winterlace · 17/02/2014 16:05

I'm certainly not blaming the victim but the stupid parents who put the children in that position. My own parents did it to me by marking me out as 'different' and the result left me in hospital.

Was it my parents fault? No. Will I do anything to avoid DD being like I was? Yes. Do I think my parents were misguided
? Very.

MrsCosmopilite · 17/02/2014 16:11

Well if any of you with boys in frocks, and girls with skinheads want a playdate with a tearaway 3yo, and you're nearby, you're welcome to come along. High heels and feather boas not mandatory.

By the way, the boy in question has no problems with identity. He knows he's a boy, he likes football, science, maths, ballet and occasionally wearing a feather boa. He didn't wear it to play football.

MrsOakenshield · 17/02/2014 16:14

so are you saying that your parents forced you to wear clothing that was different from everyone else's? Or that they didn't stop you from doing so? And were they the ones who hospitalised you?

kotinka · 17/02/2014 16:15

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ifyourehoppyandyouknowit · 17/02/2014 16:19

All children are different. The way to stop bullying is notto encourage your child to mindlessly follow the crowd, it's to encourage them to recognise and embrace all kinds of people.

The world would be bloody boring if we were all little pigeon holed copies of 'man' or 'woman'. And gender is a spectrum anyway.

Clothing for my toddler needs to be clean and and weather appropriate. I have my ownership tastes, and there are things I would prefer he didn't wear ( character clothing) I know that he is a person with his own tastes too. So if he wants to wear a pink sparkly peppa pig t-shirt, then that's what he wears.

If he's gay, then he's gay. It's a not something to fear or work to avoid FFS. If it's who he is, it's who he is. And all the pink tutus and dolls and party dresses and nail varnish in the world will the have made not a jot of difference.

And those of you that snigger or cringe or make jokes about children (or allow their children to do so) because they dont fit into your tiny little 'normal' boxes. Fuck off back to the fucking cave you crawled out of. Arseholes.

ifyourehoppyandyouknowit · 17/02/2014 16:20

*own tastes.

winterlace · 17/02/2014 16:21

MrsOakenshield, if it makes you feel really big and cool and powerful to tear shreds off me for one of the most painful experiences of my life, I can't stop you.

My parents marked me as different to the other kids and that is dangerous. The other children who beat me up so badly I ended up in hospital were the ones in the wrong but if my parents had been less fixated on using me as a tool to express their religious and political leanings I might well have been left alone. As it was , I wasn't and it destroyed my adolescence.

So carry on letting your sons wear dresses. I'll be guiding mine in socially appropriate behaviour .

MrsDeVere · 17/02/2014 16:24

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ifyourehoppyandyouknowit · 17/02/2014 16:24

You know what's socially appropriate? Accepting people for whole they are and not bullying them because they choose to wear a dress and they have a penis.

MrsDeVere · 17/02/2014 16:25

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

winterlace · 17/02/2014 16:27

And it would be lovely if the world was like that and if the sun shone every day.

However clothes are a part of life and what we wear/don't wear has connotations and regulations attached to it and personally I think ignoring that is very foolish, and certainly won't be permitting my children to break those social codes.

ifyourehoppyandyouknowit · 17/02/2014 16:28

Thus perpetuating the cycle.

winterlace · 17/02/2014 16:29

Mrs DeVere - and if he didn't want to wear his school uniform? Wanted to wear jeans and a hoodie to a formal occasion?

I wouldn't think a boy wanting to wear a dress was a freak. I'd think he was too young to understand and would wonder why his parents hadn't gently said 'no, sweetie, choose something else.'

But Confused maybe all children should just wear white smocks until puberty!

divisionbyzero · 17/02/2014 16:29

It is well within the bounds of reasonable, natural behaviour for a man to do this, and whatever he says you cannot tell anything about how he would react to his beloved son not being uber masculine when older - often the men who prefer to take a less nuanced approach to these things, that sounds very hard, are the most warm-hearted men.

YANBU to just say "so what if", of course not - but as far as concerns men bringing up their sons in the ways of men, thus far and no further. A tentative suggestion yes, then butt out. It would be as unreasonable to try and steam-roll the guy, as it would be to do the same with women and their baby daughters. :)

Seff · 17/02/2014 16:32

And what if when asked to choose something else he asked "why? why can't I wear what I want and my sister can?"

Dollslikeyouandme · 17/02/2014 16:34

I'm positive that people who do this are reflecting their own issues and insecurities onto their children.

I've seen dads in the park giving sons a pep talk about not being girly, and being a big strong boy.

As if there is something wrong with girls? And as though children really need to be assigned to a gender stereotype.

ifyourehoppyandyouknowit · 17/02/2014 16:35

Winter: uniform is mandatory, so he would have to wearit, in the same way I have to wear an ID badge at work. It's a regulation of being there. And if he wanted to go to a black tie event I would have permit him to wear black tie (for either sex, so dress or suit or whatever ). It's an extension of the weather appropriate outfits. I wouldn't let my daughter wear a swimming costume to play group, but if my DS wanted to wear a girls swimming costume at the beach or pool, I would let him.

winterlace · 17/02/2014 16:35

'Because she's a girl and you're a boy.'

I don't see it as any different to 'because you're at primary and have to wear uniform but your sibling is at nursery so doesn't.' I just don't see boys and girls having some clothes particular to their gender as something to get upset about . I would be very upset if my DD or DS were teased or worse because I hadn't gently primed them to societal expectations.

Of course if, when older, they know these and decide to break them or feel they have to (transgender for example) they'd have my wholehearted support.

MrsDeVere · 17/02/2014 16:36

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Skivvywoman · 17/02/2014 16:36

Both my boys had prams hoovers kitchens iron boards etc DH hated it but so what!

Now my youngest DS is 15 he spends more time on his appearance than me he even wears uggs (DH was really angry at this) but so what he's happy! He's certainly not gay (even though it wouldn't bother me)

ifyourehoppyandyouknowit · 17/02/2014 16:36

Sex and gender are not the same thing.

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