In assuming most men going on holiday alone to Thailand, are going to have sex with prostituted women or men?

[Grennie]

It is estimated that about 1% of Thailand's GDP is earned through sexual exploitation tourism.

In 2003 (the last year for which full figures are available) some 545,000 British residents arrived on visits. If you remove the children, and the British citizens visiting for business or reasons other than a holiday, you arrive at about 489,000—314,000 men and 175,000 women. That is 139,000 more British men than women coming to Thailand for a holiday—a gap of 28 per cent.

In no other international holiday destination, is there such a big difference in the number of women and men travelling there. There is no obvious reason for this apart from prostitution.

Extraordinary! I assure you 99% of the island is extremely respectable with families using Phuket for excellent schooling whilst commutable distances to Bangkok and Singapore for business.

I can find a link if you need, however there are numerous reports which list Thailand as one of the most favorable places to retire to - and that's for quality of life rather than sex!!

However, I would of course say that I won't say the police are wrong - that's something you don't do here!!

This 70% figure doesn't suddenly invalidate or negate all the wonderful things about Thailand.

If anything, it just makes it all the more tragic.

every man I know that's been to Thailand has indulged in the sex industry, and I'm talking about 30odd. Some have even gone with their wives who they send off shopping while they hit the girlie bars. I know of other men who spend 6 mths of the year there with their 'girlfriends' and the other 6 back in the UK working. I've heard that story dozens of time.
I've been there a few times myself and you see it everywhere, and I avoid the main tourist destinations

Only two small things to add. 1) a friend of mine lived in Pattaya for 3 years and says she will never look at Western men in the same way. She says bluntly, if you meet a man who has been there by himself or with male company, he has shagged a prostitute. 2) my married neighbour recently went on his own 'for the diving'. He lost male friends over it. The men were the first to roll their eyes and say that he was going to shag.

But we went for our honeymoon and I loved the bits we saw. I was also much more naive then.

1. How did the Thai police carry out that survey? It's been said on here that no one would admit it?

2. What justifies someone saying that a lone male does not give a shit about the exploitation of women just because they are there for a normal holiday or travelling?

3. What about a lone female on holiday? Does she also not give a shit about the exploitation? Why is it ok to assume a lone male does not give a shit but a lone female does care but it's ok for her to be there?

4)It's just possible that the sex industry puts lone females off going?

5. It is also possible to think it's wrong to go around assuming men are rapists and also to think the sex industry is wrong. Some feminists on here seem to think that just because you are concerned about labelling our sons and husbands as rapists just because they are on holiday that must mean you don't give a shit about the sex industry.

Feminists don't seem to understand that not wanting to labelling people automatically does not mean you don't care about the sex industry.

It's not an either or. Like George Bush. You're either with us or against us.

I am quite confident that the minority of "innocent" men who travel to Thailand but not specifically for "sex tourism" don't give two hoots about the industrialised, mass rape of mostly women and children.

Now you're being silly. There is a big difference between giving two hoots about prostitution and what people may or may not think about you.

Where did all this talk about raping children come into it though? One minute it was a discussion about the sex industry and all of a sudden the discussion has turn to people raping women and children. Did I miss something

Justanotherposter

Agreed

Where did all this talk about raping children come into it though?

Because Thailand has one of the highest rates of 'child prostitution' in the world, but the term 'child prostitution' is a misnomer. Children cannot consent to sex, paid for or otherwise.

These children are being raped.

Western sex tourists travel there specifically for this purpose, because they know they will get away with it.

I expect more fits of the vapours about my last sentence.

Some western sex tourists travel there specifically for the purpose of raping children.

Some will just have sex with prostituted women (whom we hope are not trafficked/enslaved - but may well be).

But that's all right - when Jim next door pops off for a lone "golfing holiday" to Thailand I'll just assume he's there for the weather

This thread is so sad for women.

Someone calls out a type of male violence. Male violence that we know happens, that we know happens on a grand scale, male violence against poor women and children. Male violence of rich white men against poor women and children of color.

And what is the response?

Hundreds of 'not my Nigel' posts and hundreds of demands for proof/evidence/statistics/and like rilly rilly specific numbers.

Jesus wept.

What is happening in Thailand is a human rights travesty. It is mass rape. It is extreme rape culture. It is the height of misogyny intersects with racism. It is foul. It is inhumane. It is happening. A lot. There are wikipedia articles on it For Crying Out Loud.

My Nigel went there too for a work meeting, with a male colleague. I warned him that if he participated in the Thai sex industry in any way, including going to a bar that offered women, I would lose all respect for him and dump him. Was he offended that I suggested he might be drawn into this hugely pervasive rape culture due to its being so prevalent and normalized in areas that tourists and business people go to?

No.

He was fucking shocked that it exists.

He managed to put his speshul menz feelingz aside for a second and not be Very Offended On Behalf of All Men as he was appalled by what he read about the actual real sexual violence and exploitation that Thai (and foreign trafficked) women and children are victims of.

Which is the basic minimum decent human being reaction.

As is keeping away from the bars that make money by degrading and humiliating women by making our bodies into freak shows and mocks our genitals and bodily dignity

Unlike brothels or strip clubs, "Ping Pong Shows" do not lure clients through promises of sexual arousal, but promises of sexual perversion if not sexual torture. They offer freak shows where women's bodies are reduced to grotesque objects exploited for tourists' entertainment.

Thanks for the clarification. It just seemed that one minute people were talking about prostituted 'women' and 'men' and then turned to some posters accosting random strangers in Thailand and calling them child rapists.

No vapours from me. I just don't think innocent visitors actually think very hard about it tbh. Otherwise Thailand wouldn't have such a big tourist trade from families, couples and travellers. That's not to say they are pro prostitution.

Like I mentioned previously, if I were going to see the sights and eat the food etc. then I wouldn't really be bothered about what people thought as my desire to walk those stunning beaches would be greater than people thinking I might be propping up the sex industry.

It's funny really. There are threads on here constantly where people advise others to neglect the opinion of others so why should men worry about opinions of their holiday destinations?

Actually, I think a sensible discussion could be had, information and opinions shared, possibly changed or educated. But the usual suspects go for aggressive and belittling methods. They shout and brow beat (and probably call for back up) anyone who doesn't agree 100 % with their standpoint and then you are ranted at being a rapist, a wife of a rapist, an excuser and enabler of abuse - yada, yada, yada. They scare most posters
off - when it is a conversation worth having.

Frothing bunch of arrogant self righteous bullies. Belittle, attack, browbeat - like a competition or a game.

Totally agree brooncoo

I think the sensible discussion was tried - but met with howls about the word "most", demands for statistics (which have been provided) and more howls of 'not my Nigel, how very dare you?'.

How can a sensible discussion be had if the fits of 'not my nigel' drown out the very salient and known fact that this abuse of women and children is happening, it's happening now, on a massive scale, and western male sex tourists are travelling to Thailand to do it.

And I'm staggered that Beachcomber's post has gone by uncommented on, whilst people here shout 'self-righteous bully'

People asking for statistics?

The "not my nigel" taunts were aimed at me and my husband. Inferring he is a "rapist of women and children". This is a very personal and serious attack. How do you expect a poster to react to those kind of taunts an serious accusations.

But, ive seen similar before and expected this kind of behaviour. Boringly predictable behaviour.

Don't be so precious brooncoo. There's nothing more annoying than a poster making a thread all about them (or their Nigel).

Thread about sex tourism and the abuse of women and children on a grand scale by male sex tourists vs. your precious Nigel.

I've got to say that I have learnt alot from this thread. I thought it was just in RL that our circle of friends, who travel a lot, look askew at the single male travellers to Thailand. I live overseas and know lots of the type, including my parent's generation who fly in to 'golf'. Very MC, all above board, until one father arranged his driver to take a male friend of mine around and who then pointed out the girlie bars that his boss liked. Revolting. And he's a pillar of the community.

The feminist stance on this thread has impressed me far, far more than the 'not my nigel' brigade. That is because the wife in the above scenario is the type who would be writing that.

It just makes you feel so jaded.

Broonco, your use of 'strange' and 'boringly predictable' in reference to those who are disagreeing with you probably has the opposite effect than you intend. It sounds as if you are trying to patronise and disparage people who, IMO, are doing a great job in opening my eyes that there is far, far too much compacency on this subject.

The feminist stance like you'd go up to a lone male traveller in Thailand and accuse him of either being a sex tourist or not caring about the exploitation of woman and children.

But ignoring the lone female traveller?

That feminist stance?

Justanotherposter - have you actually read the thread, or even the OP?

Lone male travellers to Thailand vastly outnumber lone females - even when the figures for business travel are removed. And I'd wager a fair few business travellers indulge in the sex industry themselves.

We're talking male sex tourism here.