...to ask you not to say 'But she's your MUM' when someone tells you that they have a tricky relationship with their mother?

[PlumpPartridge]

My mum has got terminal metastatic breast cancer. I've had a number of lovely, well-meaning friends who have known me for >5 years say things like 'But she's your MUM' when, having asked me how I feel, I proceed to tell them. In detail.

I tell them that I feel odd about her imminent demise, given that I have spent most of my adult life trying to get beyond her childhood teachings that I was fat and ugly and useless. I find it difficult to forgive her for being an utter bitch when I was small and defenseless and (perhaps contrarily) I get very angry about the fact that she backed down sharpish when I finally dared to threaten her back; weirdly, I would have preferred her to be an unchangable bitch rather than have to realise that she had the option of CHOOSING not to be.

Anyway. I have been fairly open about this turbulent history with my friends and my mum and I sort of get on alright now - me being married with children has done a great deal to make her appreciative of me. To be fair, she tries very hard to be a lovely Nanny to my boys and treats them like princes. They think she's wonderful. I am happy about this.

So back to my point. My friends are being kind and asking me how I am, but don't seem to get that the statement 'But she's your MUM' sort of makes it much worse. She wasn't the sort of mum who supports you no matter what and loves you no matter what you do or look like. She still isn't, really.

When they make that statement I sort of grimace/smile and try to explain why I don't feel that she was ever that sort of mum, because I am grateful that they care but I don't want to lie about my feelings towards her. I've noticed that when I do this, a few of them have seemed almost annoyed that I'm not following the standard conversational script and drop the subject very quickly. I am honestly not rude in these conversations and make it clear that I am grateful for their support, but I do wish they wouldn't use that phrase.

I suppose I should be happy for them that they probably have good relationships with their parents and honestly find my response perplexing. Still, I'd like to ask all the rest of you to say 'Oh, ok' and wait for further details if anyone ever says they have trouble with their mum (or indeed their dad/sister/brother/whoever). To do otherwise feels a bit like my feelings are being judged as incorrect, which really upsets me (even though I know that is normally not the speaker's intention).

Sorry, that turned into an essay! Cathartic, I suppose....

Yanbu op.

Don't be surprised if her death rocks you though. As someone up thread said, sometimes you hold out hope even when there is none. I actually cried when dm died. I had limited contact and I felt I mourned her while she was alive as she was no help to me, but some small part of me must have loved her.

Having said that I do not miss her at all, my life is 100% better without her in it. I never tell people that, they can't understand. Only dh and my best friend know the truth.

Greenremeberedhills how did you get past the anger ? I'm still stuck there.

yanbu.

Make sure for yourself, though, you are as in order as much as you can be in terms of your mindset and relationship, before it happens and she's gone for good.

I think when you're in the middle of something very difficult, you find that lots of people, even those you consider to be close friends, just aren't up for talking about it with you.

I'm going to struggle when my mum is dying - she's horrible to me and at least one of my brothers, over-involved with at least one sister, uses my other brother & sister when it suits her. The other brother is a bit distant too, but I think he's had his own problems which are a family secret I'm not privy to.

In short it's going to be horrible and awkward when she's ill and dying. I'm not sure how I'm going to feel. There will be politics with my siblings.

Having read all this with friends and acquaintances I'm going to just say 'yes, it's horrible/a shame etc for her.' And try and keep that measure of distance, because I won't be feeling I'm losing a mother. I lost out on that a long time ago.

yanbu
I have had this many times when after a period of me trying to attempt to have a relationship with her because of "But she's your Mum" then giving up and going NC.
Some people cant be mum's, they don't care, look after,or/and keep safe both emotionally and physically their children.
In a bit of a reverse when I had stage 3 cancer my mum showed her true colours which led me to make the nc permanent . I did get a lot of "but shes your mum" said with horror at her not me from friends when I explained about how ill I was and how difficult it was for us with 2 v young children at the time and not knowing if I'd live, that she wouldnt help as it was so difficult for her as she was embarrassed to tell people that her youngish early 30s daughter had cancer because what would they think about her and how it was soo difficult for her.
Actually I often think about her dying, it would actually be a relief as I'm still wary of them suddenly turning up sometime.

Wow scrummummy your mother is an unbelievable bitch. She was embarrassed to tell people about your cancer and it was difficult for her?? There are no words really. Hope you are doing OK now?

nadia- thanks I thought I had killed the thread.
may need to post on stately homes as this topic is v close to my heart.
it'll be 3 years since diagnosis. in remission. but I do agree "but its your mum/dad" makes me seeth.

Glad to hear you are doing better. What you have been dealing with is awful and you should have had family support - I'm sad/angry for you.

People who say things like this are just thoughtless I suppose. They have been lucky themselves in their family and lack the imagination to see that this isn't always the case.

Thank you for posting this. I have a very good friend going through the same thing with his mum who he is not at all close to. I know he had a turbulent relationship with his mum as a child although he hasn't shared many details which is understandable. I've found it difficult when I ask my friend how he is because his fears, concerns and sadness seem to be around how his other family members will cope and he still seems to direct a lot of anger towards his mum. He says he won't miss her. I've met his mum several times and she always seemed nice which perhaps makes it harder for me to understand.

I don't know that I've responded with, 'but she's your MUM' but I think I probably have been less understanding and willing to let him talk openly about his feelings towards me than I could have been. I hate to think that he may feel his feelings are being judged but I probably haven't been as supportive as I could have been. I resolve to meet up with him this week and try to be more understanding and let him talk so thank you for sharing this and giving me some perspective on the other side.

Sorry to hear you are having to go through this, and whatever your reasons for feeling sadness don't feel they are fraudulent. I hope your family are able to find some support in each other

chesterberry - what a lovely post, thank you

I am very glad that you've found this helpful, I know I certainly am.

Maybe you could show your friend this thread too, if you/he think it's appropriate.

OP: YANBU.

I daren't write about my childhood in too much depth. Suffice it to say that I find it very hard to find suitable Mother's Day cards, Christmas Cards, birthday cards etc. I have a very cuddly relationship with my own children, but I can't bear to touch my mum.

Yanbu at all OP. I find this with my DP and my MIL. She was married to the most abusive, violent man you can imagine (DP's dad) and wasn't much better as a parent herself. Not only this but she goads DP by describing her late husband as "a wonderful man" all the while knowing he beat the crap out of DP nearly every day of her life.

Amazingly DP has turned out to be the most loving, beautiful person you can imagine but it really is no thanks to her parents (her father died when she was a teenager). Now my MIL is old and has dementia. DP and I work tirelessly to care for her, we do have help but we are her main carers, because DP feels that, crap as she is, she is her only family.

However, even before she had the dementia my MIL used to be unpleasant, abusive and so unbelievably ungrateful and demanding to DP. She was a bit nicer to me. In front of other people though she was sweetness and light. I can't tell you how many times people have said to DP "Ahhhhh bless her, she's your mum, you're lucky to have her" etc etc, friends, carers, nurses and DRs in hospital etc. I know they're probably just making conversation but it is really, really upsetting to see DP be judged in that way when in fact she has been unbelievably loyal and caring towards her mother who has done bugger all for her throughout her life.

I send you much sympathy and am so sorry you are not getting the support you deserve. Huge hugs to to you.

YANBU

It is very difficult, feeling that you should be really sad but you are not. People saying "oh but its your mum" have no idea, and probably just make you then feel worse because yes, it is your mum and under normal circumstances the situation you describe would be dreadful but when somebody has made your life hell of course you are going to feel detached and possibly a sense of relief when they finally leave or are about to leave your life.

YANBU

I second the post by FlyingDucky 'don't be surprised if her death rocks you though'.

I left home as soon as I could going NC with my parents for 15 years, only getting back in contact when I learnt my dad had a few months left to live. His death hit me very very hard, it took me a while to work out that I wasn't mourning him, rather mourning the finality that nothing could ever be done to regain the lost childhood I should have had.

Sending you all my sympathy x

"Yeah but it's your MUM - that's a strong instinct which I think everybody has. I want you to think for a second about what sort of thing it would take to annihilate that instinct in you. Then when you've done that, have the insight to stop saying it to me."

Agreed Snoozybird, we nearly lost MIL a year or so ago and DP was absolutely devastated. A friend of mine was in a similar situation with her mum and was in pieces when she died so......take care xx

YANBU OP. I had a difficult relationship with my mother. Outwardly she did all the right things - I grew up warm, fed, well clothed, well educated, wanted for nothing. But she was hypercritical, cold and emotionally manipulative, all made worse by my father dying when I was 10. I'm sure that if I were to explain what it was like, it wouldn't sound that bad, but to me it was.

She's in a care home now, with dementia. People often say to me how hard that must be. I nod and smile a bit and change the subject - because it's not really hard for me at all. For example, I no longer have to experience the feeling of dread whenever the phone rings, because I know it can't be my mother calling to make me feel like a piece of dog turd she's discovered on the sole of her shoe.

I know my duty - I make sure that she, in her turn, is warm, fed, well clothed, well looked after. I can try to understand why she behaved the way she did, and some days I can forgive her. That's about all.

Flyingducky, I really don't know.

I think I just naturally started to see her more "in context", iyswim.

Ie she probably didn't have the cards stacked in her favour to turn out one of life's 'copers'. So she didn't cope.

Thanks green that's helpful

Yes.

But what that does not mean, of course, is that we open ourselves up to poor boundaries and further harm. I'm not advocating that, at all. I kept a close eye on protecting myself- and that is hard when you weren't always in the habit with them.

Funnily enough, I wasn't so good at doing so with DH. That took much longer to learn.

So I think it is for me less a matter of hanging onto anger these days as further learning.

She may not have thought I was OK. But I was, and am.

You all are.

As soon as I could I went NC with my father. I was 20.

He died a couple of years later. I've yet to feel grief and not even guilt about not feeling it.

I was more grief stricken when I had to see him.

Not one of his 5 kids went to the funeral. Telling. I told no friends nor colleagues.

I now deal with my mother. Uber critical and judgemental. The same mother who allowed my father to be horrible to us kids. She left him before he died cos she found out he had an OW. My mother has had cancer. She has now recovered but I was describing to a friend why my DS is not so keen to see his Granny (she is disfigured from the illness) She was amazed I had not mentioned my mother's illness and that I seemed matter of fact about it all and got it's 'but it's your mum' thing.

I shrugged.

Maybe I'm bitter about her collusion with my father. Maybe she was trying to do her best back then. I am trying to let it go because it does me no good. I doubt I will be anymore emotional though. So YANBU I definitely get it.

I truly think Disney has so much to answer for. The loving family image, the perfect prince etc. I longed for my mother as a child to be like those I read about in books and saw on TV. Still wanted it really right up to the time I got divorced and the scales finally fell from my eyes. What I had in reality was a woman who despised other women and spends her life desperate for male attention to the point where she would flirt with my exes. The dislike was passed onto me.

She turned a blind eye to sexual abuse in her own house even though she admitted later when I was 18 that she had suspicions and then tried to justify said abuse. Thought I was lying every time I was sick (apparently I could fake appendicitis aged 11) and was lying about being terribly bullied at school. I had to be independent, she said to a 9 year old, and not rely on her. I had to only rely on myself. There's nothing wrong with teaching independence but to be told from a young age once you leave home that's it you can't come back was quite extreme. Ignored repeated suicide attempts as me being awkward and a difficult teenager/young adult. Told me after finally leaving Ea xh that I had cast him aside and had been a bitch to him for 8 years.

I realised that she isn't normal. She was very abused by her own mother but she never saw how strange her behaviour was to other women as a result (not just me, her sisters as well - she even took the side of a husband who had beat my aunt and my aunt left him ).

Life is so much better now I'm not seeking approval from her or trying to force my mum to be something she is not, or to pretend we have this close mother daughter relationship that I so wanted.

I'm in psychotherapy for my abuse and slowly untangling the whole mother thing there. I just found out I'm having a baby girl and am terrified of being like my mother, projecting al my shit onto her! My mil who is normal! keeps saying, oh have you heard from mum, people ask if my mum is going to be around for the birth, and I deflect it as I don't want to go there. Oh but you'll regret it, you only have one mother. No, not really, arms length is just fine for me.
And yes it's annoying to hear that! Oh is your dad going to be over? No, we email twice a year and I haven't seen him in 4 years since he told me to have a nice life after hearing of my divorce. Quite content about that.

So no, op, yanbu. Sorry that was a rant! Why should anyone be pressured into having a relationship they don't want? What makes a blood relative so special and why should we as children be stuck with this obligation to someone who damages us?

I just found out I'm having a baby girl and am terrified of being like my mother, projecting al my shit onto her!

I had exactly the same fear when I went for my scans - in my case they turned out to be boys. I think now though, with the benefit of a small amount of hindsight, that the fact you're aware of the risk is itself protective. I do catch myself reacting like she used to sometimes when they are being naughty and I have to reel it in sharpish, because I can see just how easy it is to go down the 'blame the child entirely' route and not countenance the idea that my approach is sub-optimal.

The fact that you're thinking about it is a good thing IMO and will pay dividends later, livingzuid. Is this your first DC? Congratulations

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