...to ask you not to say 'But she's your MUM' when someone tells you that they have a tricky relationship with their mother?

[PlumpPartridge]

My mum has got terminal metastatic breast cancer. I've had a number of lovely, well-meaning friends who have known me for >5 years say things like 'But she's your MUM' when, having asked me how I feel, I proceed to tell them. In detail.

I tell them that I feel odd about her imminent demise, given that I have spent most of my adult life trying to get beyond her childhood teachings that I was fat and ugly and useless. I find it difficult to forgive her for being an utter bitch when I was small and defenseless and (perhaps contrarily) I get very angry about the fact that she backed down sharpish when I finally dared to threaten her back; weirdly, I would have preferred her to be an unchangable bitch rather than have to realise that she had the option of CHOOSING not to be.

Anyway. I have been fairly open about this turbulent history with my friends and my mum and I sort of get on alright now - me being married with children has done a great deal to make her appreciative of me. To be fair, she tries very hard to be a lovely Nanny to my boys and treats them like princes. They think she's wonderful. I am happy about this.

So back to my point. My friends are being kind and asking me how I am, but don't seem to get that the statement 'But she's your MUM' sort of makes it much worse. She wasn't the sort of mum who supports you no matter what and loves you no matter what you do or look like. She still isn't, really.

When they make that statement I sort of grimace/smile and try to explain why I don't feel that she was ever that sort of mum, because I am grateful that they care but I don't want to lie about my feelings towards her. I've noticed that when I do this, a few of them have seemed almost annoyed that I'm not following the standard conversational script and drop the subject very quickly. I am honestly not rude in these conversations and make it clear that I am grateful for their support, but I do wish they wouldn't use that phrase.

I suppose I should be happy for them that they probably have good relationships with their parents and honestly find my response perplexing. Still, I'd like to ask all the rest of you to say 'Oh, ok' and wait for further details if anyone ever says they have trouble with their mum (or indeed their dad/sister/brother/whoever). To do otherwise feels a bit like my feelings are being judged as incorrect, which really upsets me (even though I know that is normally not the speaker's intention).

Sorry, that turned into an essay! Cathartic, I suppose....

I have a very good relationship with my parents, but I would never, ever say to someone "but it's your mum/dad/whatever".

Because I am able to understand that just because someone is a parent, that doesn't automatically mean they are a good one. I've seen how a friend suffered with her mum and totally get that not all parents have their DCs best interests at heart. My friend had to go NC and I saw how she grieved for the mum she'd never have.

I tell them that I feel odd about her imminent demise, given that I have spent most of my adult life trying to get beyond her childhood teachings that I was fat and ugly and useless. I find it difficult to forgive her for being an utter bitch when I was small and defenceless and (perhaps contrarily) I get very angry about the fact that she backed down sharpish when I finally dared to threaten her back; weirdly, I would have preferred her to be an unchangeable bitch rather than have to realise that she had the option of CHOOSING not to be.

oh yes, i know where you're coming from. my mum is dying slowly and the issues from my childhood (similar to yours) are unresolved. i've shelved them so that we can have some pleasant conversations when she's in the mood.

rabbitlady unfortunately some people are incapable of pleasant conversation, even if they are dying.

YANBU. My mom had this from lots of people with regards to my nan who was a horrible, jealous, twisted, vindictive woman all of her life. Her death nearly two years ago set my mom free.

I'm so happy she never knew I was pregnant and never knew DD to pass on her toxic shit.

But then I had the, "It's your nan" comments too. Yes. My nan who told me how fat I was throughout my childhood and told others (in front of me) that I was illegitimate and my parents had to get married in a hurry. All complete lies.

I've come to the conclusion that some people - mothers included, just don't seem to have the capacity to 'do' relationships, either they can't be arsed, can't see the value of nurturing, couldn't care less about what another human being thinks of them, or else have so many deep rooted ishoooos from their own childhood, they carry all that baggage forward like a lead weight round their neck - and never know the joy of compromise, give-and-take and "getting there in the end" of an enriching bond, knowing that it is at least a 2-way street, reciprocal.

Yet we can only mourn the mother relationship that they were seemingly incapable of dealing with. The thought of any mother telling her child they are "fat" or "ugly" or "a failure for wetting the bed" - whow, just whow .

Relationships aren't that easy, we know that, they do take emotional bollox to be able to navigate through differences of opinion, but at least having the opportunity to come through it together over the long-term, and know there is a wonderful understanding, where you don't feel the need to explain yourself, then it's worth it. And yet all those women somehow messed up and shut the door on every possibility - more sad them. Maybe so entrenched in their ways to be able to back-track and acknowledge it. Then it just becomes a series of self-justification. Who's to know the reason why ....

Sounds as though it has made very strong women of us!

hestershaw - you're not wrong. i leave when she gets nasty.

daisychain's first paragraph sums it up perfectly. That description of such people is spot on. My last email to my mother told her not to contact me again unless she learned in the meantime how to intetract with family members like a normal adult.

My grandmother was a pretty awful women (my dad's mum) but she was an amazing nana but treated my mother and lesser extent my dad like rubbish. My mother ended up nursing her and doing everything for her (despite the vitriol and abuse) when I asked later on she just shrugged and said she gave me your dad, I'm thankful for that. I really admire her as I don't think I could be so amazing about it.

I think I would just answer 'I'm doing ok, thank you for asking' then change topic.

My mum loves my brothers, loves my dp, and loves my dog, she tells them this, often when I'm present. She has never said this to me, when I once asked her outright if she loves me, she said 'of course', and changed the subject. I have a 'practical' relationship with her, I'm useful, I give her attention and gifts and outings, that she can talk to her friends and neighbours about, and thus maintain her self esteem as a 'mum' in conversations. When she dies, I will miss her, as I would miss anyone with whom I have contact, but I wont be distraught or bereft, I dont wish her gone, and I appreciate that I have a better mum than many others, but I wont need sympathy or support when the time comes. I am sad about this.

Sadbodyblue - i hadnt really thought about it for a long time but then when i found out i was pg i started remembering things she had said to me growing up. That comment for some reason really bothers me.

I can totally understand your reactions to their comments, personally I've not told people about my difficult relationship with my mum because I've wanted to avoid exactly that. People don't normally understand and/or wouldn't admit it if they did. My mum passed away to cancer a month ago, and all feelings are very muddled up as the relationship took a major turn for the worse since the summer, just to calm down when she was too ill to have the energy to be nasty. All my anticipated feelings of relief however, still have not come. And I can't think of a single positive memory. So bloody hard when nobody else gets it! But yes, I just don't think there's any point trying to tell people. Sorry!

littleen perhaps it says a lot about you as a person that you dont feel 'relief' at your mother's demise. It is the loss of the woman who gave you life, but conversely who gave you nothing to look back on. It's such a conflicting situation that cannot sit easy with you. Hope you are making your own positive memories in your present and future life.

Thanks daisy :) She was always there for me practically (advice and help with bits and bobs) but the emotional abuse was just OTT a lot of the time, but it was only me and nobody else, for some odd reason.

I hope you can come to terms with it all Plump and know that you're far from alone in your feelings. x

Thank you all for the support like I said before, it is both lovely and sad that so many people understand this state of feeling. I hope that this thread is helpful to others who could do with the support (whether they realised it or not).

I've been speaking to my aunt (my mum's sister) and my younger sister this evening - apparently my mother is not looking good and has gone sharply downhill. I feel guilty for being so far away and I wish I could be there to support others in their grief, but I'm not sure I've thought of her personally that much. The only time I came close to crying was when I asked the nurse to please not call my sister first if our mum dies, because I don't want my little sister to be all alone when she gets news like that and then have to tell the rest of us. I'm more upset about her potential grief that my mother's imminent demise.

Sigh. I feel like I'm an awful person for feeling this way. I'm sad, but fraudulently.

i wouldn't give two hoots if my mother was terminally ill. people often say i should contact her and let bygones be bygones. they only offer that advice once as i tell them to piss off.

last night (oddly enough) i dreamt that my father had cancer. i was absolutely nonplussed. and was equally nonplussed when i told my husband. he thinks i'm harsh, but unless you've either been in that position or you know every single detail i don't think anyone can judge you. so tell those judgey judgersons to jog on.

Sigh. I feel like I'm an awful person for feeling this way. I'm sad, but fraudulently.
you're not awful. just feel as you feel. that's all you can do.

Yanbu in the slightest. I have a friend who was scapegoated by both his parents. His siblings conyehed their pleas for reconciliation at the point of their deaths. He was steadfast in his opinion that as they had chosen to try to destroy him as a child he would have nowt to do with it. He felt nothing but relief when they died. You have done well to do some sort of working relationship. Don't have a moment's guilt.

YANBU, my Mum died in 2005, I cried a little for the relationship I wished we'd had and I'm glad I was there when she died, even though she flinched away from me when I tried to touch her hand (it wasn't just me, she couldn't bear to be touched).

As an adult I've come to understand some of her behaviour, from what we've pieced together she had an unpleasant childhood and she was bitterly unhappy and frustrated by her later life which she saw as a trap, just as she thought she had all the children off her hands and could re-start her career she was diagnosed with a life limiting illness and to cap it all fell pregnant with me.

However much I've tried to understand her I'm still glad she's gone, thankfully I was able to talk to two of my siblings who admitted they felt the same way.

The bit that an outsider would find particularly hard to understand is the wild black humour that accompanied her death. Her ashes were in my house for some time and I joked that I was now certain that there was no such thing as ghosts because the pans would have been flying across the room, my brother says he looks for a black sucking vortex of evil every time he passes the churchyard where she is buried with my dad.

Not saying that these are good jokes, (they aren't actually the worst of them), they're certainly in appalling taste, we didn't laugh at them because they were funny, it was just a release.

i get but cant you just forgive her? umm no she is living with the man who groomed my daughter doesn't see anything wrong with that insists HE has the right to see my daughter and they both totally ignore my sons existence (ds1 that is she has never met my second son) when i say things like this i get embarrassed silence i just smile and nod now

My sister has had quite a few 'but she's your mum' comments. People are just ignorant sometimes about other people's lives. They seem eager to believe we are exaggerating rather than trust we are being honest - even though we generally play down past events or talk about them humorously. I tend to just keep quiet these days unless I've had too many drinks.

We struggle with buying suitable Mother's Day cards.

Most of the sickly sweet messages inside that are just wrong. My sister buys plain, artistic cards, left blank for your own message.

My sister has a worse relationship now with mum; when I was a child my relationship with mum was impossible.

When I became a mother myself then I found it hard to understand how my mum could have behaved the way she did, and still does occasionally - age does seem to have mellowed her.

I wonder if it was the menopause - but just how long does it last? 15-20 years?

It feels very disloyal to write this and I am so tempted to delete.

No, the forum is anonymous after all and why should you feel bad? You're just telling the truth.

YANBU
I'm not sure about you OP but it's been comforting reading about other people with Mum's who were not the most, er, supportive!
As soon as anything gets tough for me she's not interested, and she will always take the other persons side when they've upset me (I was panic attacking outside sleazy letting agency once who were trying to keep our deposit for a crap hole house we left in much better condition than we found - and she comes out going "you know that poor girl is crying in there, she is trying to help you" - OOOH, you meant the girl that lied about the house having a gas connection - which we subsequently found out was leaking, the girl who told the owner of the house we wanted it furnished when we wanted it unfurnished etc etc
And that about sums her up. Had to ask DP to ask her to go away as she wouldn't listen to me - and that about sums her up.
Also used to call me fat, still does/always says "You'd be much happier if you did more exercise" < I could lose a stone but having battled with Bulimia for over a decade I have to be careful how I go about it. The only time she's said I look good is when I was anorexic/bulimic and doing 45 mins on a rowing machine - how does a 14 year old get away with eating nothing but nectarines/the odd bit of toast and a few sweets every day without their mum knowing?! Her letting me skip meals etc. was because she preferred me skinny and 'prettier'.

When I eventually told her I was bulimic on the advice of a counsellor ("You might be surprised at the support you get" she says) Mum slaps me and starts shouting "How could you DO this to me!! What if people find out!!" etc. (I always wondered who exactly the people she was afraid of losing fce in front of were - she hated all our neighbours..) then NEVER mentions it to me again, oh but she did tell my sister to follow me to the toilet every time we went to a restaurant for a family meal.

Had quite a bit of fun telling the counsellor that, actually.

Oops, seems I've had my own ginormous little cathartic rant!

Essentially yes, I know where you're coming from - and it is annoying when other people think there has to be some magical bond/closeness just because someone's a parent.

I completely get where the OP is coming from, I'm another with a complicated relationship with my parents especially my mum. Sometimes I let those kind of comments wash over me, other times I pick one of the many many occasions of truly shite /horrible/thoughtless/nasty behaviour on my mums part and tell people in great detail... This usually causes their faces to drop and them to splutter apologies and the ever repeated phrase 'gosh, but you're so normal'
Thankfully DH is very supportive & understanding of my difficult relationship with them.

Plump I can see where you're coming from, I didn't cry either until when seeing her the last few days (seeing someone dying is actually shockingly scary) but mainly because of feeling sorry for my dad who's left on his own, having been with her since he was 18. Don't feel bad about it, it's worse for those left behind - death is never the worst thing that can happen to you.

I went no contact with my difficult mother for many years, until she contacted me after she learned she had early signs of dementia.

I saw her a bit - maybe 3 or 4 times a year for a day- between then and her death 4 years later.

I had not hated her by then for a long time and actually felt sorry that her own childhood and circumstances had made her such a very poor mother. She was probably not able to see that herself.

I helped her out on a couple of occasions eg through helping with navigating the system- the sort of stuff she had always been poor at.

I felt sad for her life when she died, but nothing at all for myself in terms of grief. A dozen years on I can confirm that I was not hit by grief at a later stage, as I had been warned.

I think getting beyond the hate stage is good for ourselves, if you see what I mean. For many people, and I was one of them, your parent can eventually be no more important than the old lady down the road. There is nothing to miss if there was never anything to have from the relationship. However dealing with the anger might be a good thing for people who have it, in order to protect ourselves from the effects of that anger. I suppose I mean forgiveness. That is not the same thing as reconciliation, because how can you reconcile with what was never there to start with.

People who are uncomfortable with any decision you take are in fact uncomfortable for themselves. They are not thinking if you at all.