...to ask you not to say 'But she's your MUM' when someone tells you that they have a tricky relationship with their mother?

[PlumpPartridge]

My mum has got terminal metastatic breast cancer. I've had a number of lovely, well-meaning friends who have known me for >5 years say things like 'But she's your MUM' when, having asked me how I feel, I proceed to tell them. In detail.

I tell them that I feel odd about her imminent demise, given that I have spent most of my adult life trying to get beyond her childhood teachings that I was fat and ugly and useless. I find it difficult to forgive her for being an utter bitch when I was small and defenseless and (perhaps contrarily) I get very angry about the fact that she backed down sharpish when I finally dared to threaten her back; weirdly, I would have preferred her to be an unchangable bitch rather than have to realise that she had the option of CHOOSING not to be.

Anyway. I have been fairly open about this turbulent history with my friends and my mum and I sort of get on alright now - me being married with children has done a great deal to make her appreciative of me. To be fair, she tries very hard to be a lovely Nanny to my boys and treats them like princes. They think she's wonderful. I am happy about this.

So back to my point. My friends are being kind and asking me how I am, but don't seem to get that the statement 'But she's your MUM' sort of makes it much worse. She wasn't the sort of mum who supports you no matter what and loves you no matter what you do or look like. She still isn't, really.

When they make that statement I sort of grimace/smile and try to explain why I don't feel that she was ever that sort of mum, because I am grateful that they care but I don't want to lie about my feelings towards her. I've noticed that when I do this, a few of them have seemed almost annoyed that I'm not following the standard conversational script and drop the subject very quickly. I am honestly not rude in these conversations and make it clear that I am grateful for their support, but I do wish they wouldn't use that phrase.

I suppose I should be happy for them that they probably have good relationships with their parents and honestly find my response perplexing. Still, I'd like to ask all the rest of you to say 'Oh, ok' and wait for further details if anyone ever says they have trouble with their mum (or indeed their dad/sister/brother/whoever). To do otherwise feels a bit like my feelings are being judged as incorrect, which really upsets me (even though I know that is normally not the speaker's intention).

Sorry, that turned into an essay! Cathartic, I suppose....

My mum died when I was a teenager and I adored her - still miss her now. Being a teenager there was a fair bit of "my parents are bastards" and for a good few years my retort was to tell them they were lucky they had them.

I don't know if it's because I probably watched peoples relationships more closely because of what I was missing, but I learnt that some people really are horrible or just plain clash with their family, my experience isn't anyone else's and if they say they don't get on with their family then that's their right and they'll have their reasons.

Nothing's static and sometimes you do see people make that last ditch attempt when someone's terminally ill or old, but there shouldn't be such an expectation of it, people know their own limits and that's their line to cross if they want to.

I was chatting with a colleague who couldn't fathom how one of daughters friends was treated by her parents (not physical abuse but very coldly), it's reality though isn't it? Some people just aren't good parents, there's no point banging on about how it should be when reality is very different. You can't convince some people though.

Rosemary West is someone's mother - would anyone be telling her kids to adore her because she once housed them in her uterus?

OP, I hope that you get some kind of peace when this episode in your life is over. Don't lose the strength of you're own convictions, it's your experience and any commenters don't actually matter. Those that did wouldn't comment.

Another YANBU OP.

This is such a difficult topic to speak freely about because even though many people clearly have damaged relationships with their parent(s) there's still this general convention in society that children (even adult ones) should "honour" their mother and father - so to speak.

Consequently, for those of us who have difficult relationships, comments like "but she's your mum" make us feel even more "guilty" than we already do. It's extremely hard to acknowledge that your parent(s) failed in some way in their obligation to bring a child up to feel loved as many people twist the situation around and struggle with the idea that somehow they were unlovable and/or the cause of the hurt and damage their parent(s) caused. To get over that and allow yourself to think that maybe "it" (the relationship - or lack of) wasn't/isn't your fault is a big deal - and though I can't speak for everyone else in a similar situation obviously - it's something that I, personally, have great trouble with ..... veering between standing up for myself, so to speak, in my own head, and then feeling "bad" for having such "unacceptable" feelings against my mother. So if the whole thing already causes you a great deal of angst and worry, having someone stick the boot in still further by implying that, no matter what, our mums "deserve" a certain level of respect, can be very upsetting.

Similarly, comments like "at least you've still got a mum" have the same sort of effect. I can totally understand why someone who's lost a beloved parent might feel shocked at hearing someone else criticise their own, and I would of course have sympathy for their loss .... my dad was very much loved, and I miss him terribly even after many years. But it's so very wrong to tell someone else how they should be feeling about their mum (or dad) ..... most people wouldn't dream of saying, for example, to a victim of domestic violence, that "at least you've got someone" .... as if anyone, regardless of how unpleasant or difficult they are, is better than nothing!

I do actually dread my mum dying ..... and were you to survey the population a large percentage would probably say the same thing. Most would do so because they understandably fear losing someone they feel close to and love very much. I dread my mum going - and this fear is ever increasing as she gets closer to the age when, statistically, people generally do start to die - because while she's still alive, there's this teeny tiny glimmer of hope (albeit the odds must be a million to one) that maybe, just maybe, my mum might one day say or do something which demonstrated that she actually has any real interest or care for either me or my children. And even less likely, there's still the opportunity for her to talk to me and try to explain why she has been so emotionally cold and unavailable towards me for as long as I can remember - and conversely, I would have the opportunity to try and explain how hurt she's made me feel countless times when I've been rejected again and again (my memories of this go back to at least age 7). The chances of any sort of heart to heart are practically nil .... all past evidence suggests she would be absolutely horrified by any attempt I made at this ... she would change the subject, ask me to leave, and I would undoubtedly be cast as the villain (to wider family). Nonetheless .... while she's still here, I can't help but daydream, because I have so many unanswered questions, of 40 years standing, as well as a huge dose of zero self esteem which has affected every area of my life. Anyway, the point is, when she dies, I will have to face up to the fact that I will NEVER know why she was and still is so cold to me .... her own relationship with her mother seemed "normal", my grandmother was a warm, loving, interested person. I really am frightened that once she's gone, I will break down emotionally - though to all intents and purposes I haven't felt as if I've had a "real" parent anyway since my dad died over 20 years ago (while he was still here, his love and support kind of concealed how crap my mum was IYSWIM).

Sorry OP .... I didn't mean to go of on one there on your thread. I just hope you feel a bit better having read many of the accounts here which demonstrate we don't all come from the Waltons. Reading so many other tales of similar feelings to my own prompted me to post .... in real life, it seems - at least on the surface - that everyone I know has loving, mutually supportive, enjoyable and dependable relationships with both of their parents ..... something I admit I feel very envious of. Being a "mother" (or father) doesn't automatically qualify you for some sort of prize - it has to be earnt ... and I sometimes feel that perhaps the only good thing my mum did was to show me how not to be a good mother, which has made me extra determined to show my children that they are very much loved and valued (hopefully they feel that way too!). I can think of plenty of "mothers" - you only have to read the papers - who are nothing like the saintly stereotype some people like to think is the only way a mother can be.

It is really hard to identify your feelings for a very far from ideal parent. The fact that they are your parent means the relationship can never quite be dismissed in the way that something like a former friendship can. I have a distant relationship with my mother, and having lost my "dad" at a young age, I know that the grief and loss would be different to that of a much loved parent. Part of that loss would be for things that have never happened rather than missing a parent being contactable. My "mum" found the loss of her mother much harder than she expected as it churned up a lot of buried pain, rather than missing the positves that usually accompany a parent-child relationship.

At work the other day, one woman said she didn't get on with her mother, and another woman started saying "Oh but she's your mother! You must embrace her! She's waiting to see you! The cord is never truly cut!" etc, etc, etc, etc! It was nauseating tbh, and I have a pretty good relationship with my mother, but I have enough common sense not to assume that having given birth makes you into a nice person.

OP...Not all of us are blessed with Mothers we will miss when they die. Some people are lucky enough to not understand this

While I wouldn't class her as toxic, or even a bad person, we don't have a warm relationship, I didn't feel loved as a child and didn't trust her. She's hard going. I made a choice to stay in contact more for the benefit of my sister and late grandparents, she has no idea how I really feel as she has the empathy and self awareness of a house brick

This is pretty much the situation I am in (substitute grandparents for niece) and have been for sixteen years. I find maintaining a relationship with my mother incredibly stressful. My biggest fear is that I will end up like her and alienate my children.

I can totally relate. No mother/daughter 'bestie' relationship here, never was and never will. Had some bother with her recently since getting pg and giving birth and would talk to my best friend for advice. I always feel soo guilty talking to her about my feelings towards mum as she lost her parents when she was only 8 yrs old, but, she never judges me or gives me the whole 'but shes your mum' shit.
Having my own child has raised questions. About my own childhood. I never really felt loved, they had an authoritarian style of parenting, was never encouraged to do anything or given opportunities to do anything. I can remember at a young age (probs 5-6) saying to mum that i wanted to be a ballerina (yes, prob silly child dreams) and her reply was 'well ballerinas dont wet the bed' ( i was a bed wetter, even given meds for it).
I will do everything in my power to make sure my ds knows hes loved and can come to me for anything, i never want him to feel the way i do about my own mum.

YANBU

And I say that as someone who did get lucky when it came to mothers

I have always believed that an accident of birth shouldn't define your relationship with anyone, family is an amazing thing and very important but only when it adds to your life- not if it makes your life more unhappy

I would do anything for my mum, but it's not because she happened to give birth to me it's because of all the things she has done since then

My mothers mother is a toxic witch, she is an old lady now so saying that often gets me lots of looks, but it's true, she is and my poor lovely mum deserved so much better. Even now strangers will try to guilt trip my mum into visiting more/looking after her/moving nearer to her and it makes me so cross. My mum is an amazingly loving and caring person, if she is keeping her distance then surely they should be able to realise there is a bloody good reason for it?!

I have mixed view on this.

She is still your mother but obviously a far from perfect one.
None of us are perfect , maybe she had her own issues.

If she fed you and housed you and nade sure you got to school and were safe and not neglected, I would be grateful to her for that and respect her for that.
If she was critical and mean to you which has affected you, I would feel she let you down and that has affected your relationship with her and you do not respect her for that.
So you may feel a measured response to her illness may be best, to offer condolences wrt her terminal illness and help her within your comfort and how much time and effort you wish to give.... That she has things in place and that you visit her etc, but that you do not wish to be intimately caring for her in your or her home. I don't think I would be unkind about her either to my friends or family for two reasons...it is personal between the two of you and it seems a bit unkind both to her and your other family members since she is going to die soon.

'at least you have a mum'

I hate that, it's the reason i've not posted on a couple of threads actually.

'at least you have a mum'

Well, actually, if you define what a mum IS, I actually don't.

The one I have makes things worse, not better.

The one I have sees me hurt, and piles on in to take advantage of my weakness.

The one I have sees others go for my jugular, and throws in her support of them.

So no. I do not actually have a mother.

"But she's your mum!!!"

Exactly, she is my mum, not yours. I wish things were different, but i'd not wish her on you. You're not lucky to have your mother; you're just lucky NOT to have mine.

Yanbu - what do they want you to do, burst into tears and wail "she is my mum after all!"

It's hardly supportive to try and make you feel worse about your situation, regardless of your relationship with your mum.

Yanbu. I have a really lovely mum. Walk through fire for us etc. Which made it so bewildering to see how fil treated DH, then me and the dc. Snide comments,casual rudeness, mockery and childish sulking. Demanding devotion with nothing back. Usual toxic stuff.
And DH saw how families work. And how far from that his fractured family was. And finally walked away. When Fil does die DH will be sad but for what he should have had not what he lost iyswim. And I won't say But it's your dad"

YADNBU OP. Thankfully my mother is wonderful, but I have a difficult relationship with my stepfather. People go on about how I should be "grateful' that he 'took me on'.

Grateful for 15years of Emotional abuse? Aye, right. My DP has never understood because he was lucky to have two parents who were absolutely lovely.

Sorry that you are going through this.

Yanbu at all

I couldn't agree more, OP.

YANBU

I also hate "at least you have a mother"

My best friend lost her wonderful mother @ 15 yo. She went through hell as a result for years afterwards, including poverty and homelessness.

She feels sorry for me and thinks I had it worse as says that what kept her going was knowing how much her mum had loved her and the self esteem and strength that gave her. I think that she had it harder and is an amazing woman.

My parents gave me food and shelter and intermittent medical care. I grew up physically, emotionally and mentally abused. I didn't know what it is was like to live a life not in fear, not to be completely terrified the whole time. I spent a large part of my life thinking that I was such a terrible, evil and worthless human being because my own mother didn't like me let alone love me. But I am supposed to be grateful that they at least put a roof over my head?

One of the basic things people need is to feel safe. My parents neglected that basic need. I owe them nothing.

So she is my mother - well she failed at it, completely, and I, any child, deserved better.

Wispa31 what a vile and spiteful comment to you re bed wetting!

that upset me.

ExcuseTypos "I also felt very relieved when my mum died.

My main aim as an adult is to make sure I have a loving relationship with my DDs. It took me a long time to believe that they could actually love me, because as a child I hadn't loved my mum, but had to pretend I did. I thought my own DDs were pretending toosad. It was my DH who pointed out time after time that I was wrong.

I think a lot of people who have a great relationship with mums, find it extremely difficult to understand."

I can really relate to this, although my mother is still alive at 93 and has mellowed to the extent that she's almost human. My lack of self-esteem has had a very serious and far-reaching effect on my life. The loving relationship I have with my wonderful daughter (22 yrs old) is something I treasure more than I can say.

I had a dreadful mother and no father - pretty bad luck really. I now have two gorgeous DDs who have turned around my perception of the mother-daughter relationship and I feel I'm experiencing it for the first time.

I am NC with my mother. She convinced the entire family that I am 'in the wrong' for going NC. Sadly they are all a bit thick and have no analytical ability and they take her side because shrieks "but she's your mother!"

She benefits hugely from the fact that several members of the family lost their mothers prematurely, therefore they think I'm evil for going NC with mine.

Funnily enough, nobody was shouting 'but she's your daughter!' When I was a kid. Nasty old witch. I often wonder how I would feel if she died. I'm pretty ambivalent about it.

YADNBU.

When people ask how I'll feel when my father dies, given I've gone NC, the real answer would be "relieved". But I say it won't mean much, as the faces are bad enough with that answer.

The real shock was having to go NC with a family friend who almost helped raise me, because she refused to accept my decision and kept liaising between my father and I, up to and including every detail of my life going to him and inventing messages from me to him so he wouldn't realise I'd walked away. I was in my mid thirties, at the time. A parent myself. She has her own issues with letting people go, after her own grisly parental relationships - but it shows how scary some find the mere idea that blood ties are not indissoluble.

YADNBU.

My mother is very ill and has been for a while. Nc for about 10 year, never will she is a horrid woman. I only discuss it with certain friends now, others really do not get it. One made comments about her being my mum so I avoid the subject with her now.
Yanbu.

I'm sorry to hear about the awful relationship you've suffered op. I'm glad it's cathartic to share. I have had no contact with my father for 18 years now and I just about tolerate my mum, mainly because in a way I've always needed her no matter how nasty, abusive and frightening she has been. What really gets to me now I have children myself is how she could have been so cruel and lacking in emotional control for so many years when I had no power or say to prevent it.

She's mainly nice as pie to me these days with a few flip outs here and there.

She's got a terminal illness. I'm fairly numb about it. I admire your honesty op. Im not open about my feelings of ambivalence and dislike and take the sympathy.

The day I was able to understand that my mother didn't love or even like me was the day I was free of her. I haven't spoken to her in 10 years and never will again.

She was cruel, spiteful and physically abusive. I have physical and psychological symptoms every day from what she did to me and I'm 45 now.

She is one of those old school, you-made-your-bed-you-have-to-lie-in-it types, and it took me a long time to realise that that works both ways. She thought she was justified in behaving like that - I feel justified in ignoring the mean old bitch.

This is such an enlightening thread for me. My parents split up acrimoniously when my brother and I were very little, we never saw our mother again, she only made half hearted attempts to get back into our lives. I blanked out the need for a mother, got on with it but always wondered how could a woman who carried 2children for 9 months each just walk away (she did have depression so it is a simplistic question to ask, I guess)? Back in the day all this stuff was swept under the carpet, never spoken about. It has made me self sufficient, and I hope a better DSM to my DSS by appreciating how important the mother/maternal child relationship is, if valued and respected the way it should be.

Well, reading all these distressing stories ( I do find them distressing, sad and astounding), I can appreciate just how possible it is for a woman to be so horrendous to her off-spring, because you have all shared your stories - yet it still feels so incredulous to me. I live and learn. I used to think my brother and I were a unique case, but no, these life stories are more common than people would believe.

Partridge it definitely does not automatically follow that you should have to somehow create feelings of warmth towards your mother, not after a lifetime of hurt so YADNBU in getting upset when people say that you should, they just don't know the half of it xx

catsmother if I should be so bold, if ever you do experience an awful time in the future if you lose you mother, I think you will find you will get an amazing amount of moral support on MN. Your posts are so insightful and empathetic, and you support many, many people in their difficulties, on almost a daily basis. You can count on people to care for you in your time of need. Despite the lack of love you received from your mum, it is a credit to your resilience that you are a well balanced person and use your talents in the service of others. I bet your kids think the world of you! X

Yep totally get this, I'm estranged from my 'mum' by choice, she is nasty, vindictive, malicious, deceitful and seems to have a huge personality disorder which makes it doubly difficult to challenge or manage any of her behaviours.
She has caused untold damage over the years to close and extended family, her friends and neighbours and even distant acquaintances.
I know that I have made the right decision for both my mental health and the safety of my children and the sanctity of my home.
Every time it comes up in conversation people do the head tilt thing and say 'but jaded... She's still your mum'.
It really riles me it's the same mentality of people who struggle to accept that women can be abusers too.
She abused us our whole lives. I struggle with my conscience when I know she is lonely and going a bit mad and I imagine that if she was dying of cancer it would cause huge confusion for me but ultimately I'd be relieved she's out of our lives for good although I would always grieve for the mother that never was.