...to ask you not to say 'But she's your MUM' when someone tells you that they have a tricky relationship with their mother?

[PlumpPartridge]

My mum has got terminal metastatic breast cancer. I've had a number of lovely, well-meaning friends who have known me for >5 years say things like 'But she's your MUM' when, having asked me how I feel, I proceed to tell them. In detail.

I tell them that I feel odd about her imminent demise, given that I have spent most of my adult life trying to get beyond her childhood teachings that I was fat and ugly and useless. I find it difficult to forgive her for being an utter bitch when I was small and defenseless and (perhaps contrarily) I get very angry about the fact that she backed down sharpish when I finally dared to threaten her back; weirdly, I would have preferred her to be an unchangable bitch rather than have to realise that she had the option of CHOOSING not to be.

Anyway. I have been fairly open about this turbulent history with my friends and my mum and I sort of get on alright now - me being married with children has done a great deal to make her appreciative of me. To be fair, she tries very hard to be a lovely Nanny to my boys and treats them like princes. They think she's wonderful. I am happy about this.

So back to my point. My friends are being kind and asking me how I am, but don't seem to get that the statement 'But she's your MUM' sort of makes it much worse. She wasn't the sort of mum who supports you no matter what and loves you no matter what you do or look like. She still isn't, really.

When they make that statement I sort of grimace/smile and try to explain why I don't feel that she was ever that sort of mum, because I am grateful that they care but I don't want to lie about my feelings towards her. I've noticed that when I do this, a few of them have seemed almost annoyed that I'm not following the standard conversational script and drop the subject very quickly. I am honestly not rude in these conversations and make it clear that I am grateful for their support, but I do wish they wouldn't use that phrase.

I suppose I should be happy for them that they probably have good relationships with their parents and honestly find my response perplexing. Still, I'd like to ask all the rest of you to say 'Oh, ok' and wait for further details if anyone ever says they have trouble with their mum (or indeed their dad/sister/brother/whoever). To do otherwise feels a bit like my feelings are being judged as incorrect, which really upsets me (even though I know that is normally not the speaker's intention).

Sorry, that turned into an essay! Cathartic, I suppose....

So very true. The same should be for dads as well, having someone who squirted where you took root does not make a dad. It'd makes a more pleasurable turkey baster.

People need to think twice. Maybe say to them 'she hasn't been anything close to a mum to me or anyone else' rather then accept their ignorance.

YANBU. I think people who say "But she's your MUM!" are actually very lucky. They clearly have no notion that there can be any kind of parent other than normal kind, supportive, loving ones. Toxic behaviour from people who are supposed to be parents is entirely beyong their imaginings.

But that's what parental toxic behaviour does. It messes with your head and makes you think you are a bad person for not loving your mum the way everyone else seems to.

Totally identify with this. This really came to a head with me when I was planning my wedding, my DM didn’t want to come to wedding, long back story, I get on ok with DM and so does my DP but she just didn’t want to come. I did try to encourage her too but didn’t try to force it.

Quite a few people’s response, when I mentioned she wasn’t coming was ’but she’s you MUM how could she not want to come to the wedding of her ONLY DAUGHTER . MY MUM would move heaven and earth to get to MY WEDDING. What are you going to do about it? YOU MUM can’t not come to your wedding’ Really didn’t know how to respond to those type of responses. There was also an assumption, I think, that I’d not invited her or made it hard for her to come. Some people just couldn’t process that a DM would ever choose not to go to their child’s wedding. Mine did though!

I’m pleased you posted this, it’s something I often find myself thinking about but struggle to express. I don’t really like to talk to other people about all the stuff that went on when I was younger, so people make their own assumptions. As DM appears to be a doddery old lady now, people assume I must be the one being cold hearted and cruel to my poor mother. They have no idea what went on though.

yes it's not a God given right to love your mother. it's a parents God given duty to love and care for their children unconditionally and so earn that love.

I am airways shocked at these threads that tell such sad stories of truly crap parents. unforgivable.

YANBU. I am another person who has a difficult relationship with her mother and VERY mixed feelings about her involvement in my life. What gets me is when people say (with a sigh), "I would give anything to spend another day with my mother. You should be glad you have her". Um, no, I live as far away from her as physically possible for a reason. And i always think, YOUR mother is not MY mother.

YANBU. I no longer have any contact with my mum, lots of reasons, mainly because she's a Narc. I hate that people automatically assume that you have a great relationship with your mum, and the whole, "But she's your mum" really gets on my tits. Yes, she may well be my mum, that doesn't mean she actually a good mother!

And there's this awful thing doing the rounds on fb at the moment all about a mother's love. I want to puke when I see it.

I had a toxic mother.

I did my grieving when she was still alive. She's been dead for a long time now.

I don't doubt we would have continued to have a very difficult relationship or gone NC if she was still here

I think those who enjoyed a relationship that was warm, caring and supportive with their mothers really can't imagine what it's like for those of us who haven't. jessjessjess offers a good response upthread.

I also know what you mean as unfortunately I also have a toxic mother. YANBU

I think I will use that in future jessjessjess.... yours too mia4. I spent my morning prep routine mentally planning truthful-yet-not-unkind eulogies for the woman. I was actually trying to work out what I could say at her funeral that would sound innocuous to outsiders but would speak volumes to family.

There's NO chance any of my family would let me get up and speak at her funeral as they all know full well how I feel, but I still seem to be rehearsing. It feels rather messed up.

At the moment it goes something like:

"I don't need to speak about my feelings. I'd rather speak for my boys and say that they will be very sad to lose their loving grandmother. I would also like to say a word for all her students whom she inspired to do well in history (her specialty). Even now, her old students still get in touch with me to say how much they appreciated her. I can't tell you what that means to me."

I take a twisted enjoyment in seeing how far i can push the double-meanings....sigh.

Huge sympathy to you, Partridge. I'm so sorry you're going through this.

I'd also add 'but you'll feel awful when he's gone...' to the list of things not to say.

Yes, of course I fucking will. I'll feel awful because it will be the final nail in the coffin of knowing that he will never, ever apologise for what he did. That any faint, distant, outside chance of him ever having the qualities of a good dad are now gone.

I will regret that when parents were being dished out, I got stuck with an abusive, narcissistic, damaging one, and that when he's died, that's it.

I know this is the case already; he will not change, there will be no apology. But the idea that I might not have noticed that I'll be a bit sad when he's dead is totally patronising! The idea that I've just woken up one morning and thought; 'I know! I won't talk to dad anymore!' is patronising.

If someone says they have complicated issues with their parents, accept that there are undoubtedly some horrors there that the person has to deal with alone, and leave it.

We have a duty as parents to love our children unconditionally. We have no right to expect that they love us in the same way but we can hope that they will reflect our love.

That's the problem though Misty. Some parents don't love their kids unconditionally. Some parents do love their kids but are not that interested in their lives. Some just don't love their kids at all. Some love their kids as kids, but lose interest when they become adults. If you have a parent(s) that have no interest in your life or their grandchilds life, it makes it pretty hard to like them as a parent, never mind love them.

Haven't read thread - no time - but Oh god OP i agree, i agree, i agree!

I nearly started a thread saying the same thing a few months ago.

My DM is is a mixed bag ... sometimes fine, sometimes not - but whenever i've posted about her on MN there's always a few ''just be grateful she's not dead, mine is'', and ''She's your MOTHER, you should be ashamed of yourself'' posts.

I've said it before and i'll say it again - you never see anyone saying ''be grateful he's not dead'', on posts about husbands ... why on earth is it relevant to say it about blood relatives? ... Plus, as i'm sure has been said here, giving birth doesn't make you a nice person, or grant you a divine ticket to get away with treating people like shite.

What I mean is that as children, we have no duty to love our parents, if we are lucky, their love for us will generate reflected love. If not, we all miss out.

I usually say that my Mum left my Dad for another woman, casually. This usually stops conversations while the other person processes this, then they usually change the subject.

I love my boys, my boys love me.

My Mum has a difficult relationship with DS1 and a fantastic relationship with DS2. DS1 is the first born GC and being a boy was an unknown quantity to her. DS2 is the last born GC and one of 3 boy GC. By the time he was born she got used to boys. It also helps that DS2 is a happy cuddly child.

I only take my boys for their benefit, not mine.

Its very hard to accept that my Mum can't love me the way I love my kids.

YANBU at all.

I have a very poor relationship with my dad. I have cut contact with him and I am fed up of being told the same. And 'life's too short' is the other one that bakes my noodles. Life's too short for what exactly?! In my opinion, life is too short to waste time on people who can't be bothered to do the same for you.

YANBU OP.

I agree with many posters on this thread.

Generally I prefer to spend my time with those that I have chosen. i.e. my friends, my DH and my DS. I can tolerate other family members but don't go out of my way to spend time with them.

have just had an awkward birthday celebration - which DH arranged - and invited parents, in-laws etc. It pissed me off big time, I wanted dinner with DH. That's all.

I consider myself very lucky because my stepmum who married my dad after my parents split up when I was 5 has by far been a better mother to me than my own ever was and is a fantastic granny to my son.

My mum never understood that after telling me for 20 yrs that she didn't want me and neither did my dad and that as soon as was 16 I could bugger off, I then found it hard to be there at her side when she was dying and couldn't throw myself into the dutiful daughter role expected.

Look after yourself PlumpPatridge and don't worry about what other people think you should feel.

I can relate but a disagree.

My mum had a dreadful childhood, a mum who tried to commit suicide and blame on her, in and out if institutions, hating my mum because she and her dad were close.

My mum married my dad young to escape her, went NC before I was born and didn't want her any where near me.

When I was 35, she found out her mum was dying and agonised about whether to go and see her one last time. She did, she was glad she did and admitted she would have regretted not going if she hadn't.

If everybody had trod on eggshells and not got her to think about going, she wouldn't have gone. Having to explain her feelings to those who didn't understand really helped her to be sure of her own thoughts.

Of course, not everyone is like that (as can be seen in this thread) but there is no one right answer.

"But she's your MUM!"

Well she shouldn't left when I was seven, should she?
Nor been drunk or sleeping it off for most of my pre-school years.

YANBU

My mum died when I was 12.

I didn't have the best childhood and she wasn't all that nice to me and turned a blind eye to abuse.

I was relieved that she'd died. But I couldn't tell anyone that. I wasn't at all upset about it, but I got sent to counciling by my school as everyone thought I was bottling up my true feelings. I wasn't - I didn't have any feeling in the matter.

It's hard to tell people that. When they know my mum died when I was a child they find it so hard to belive that I didn't care all that much. I can gaurentee that if she'd lived then I would have cut her out at 16 when I left home.

No one understands. My husband thinks I'm crazy - but he has a wonderful mum.

So no, yanbu. Fwiw, when my father dies I will feel the same relief. He continues to be toxic.

YANBU.

I started a thread recently about how difficult I'd found my mum over Xmas, and while some really understood, there were a few "But she's your mum" and my other favourite, "At least you've got a mum".

While I wouldn't class her as toxic, or even a bad person, we don't have a warm relationship, I didn't feel loved as a child and didn't trust her. She's hard going. I made a choice to stay in contact more for the benefit of my sister and late grandparents, she has no idea how I really feel as she has the empathy and self awareness of a house brick.

I have no relationship with my father (we left when I was 7/8), and didn't have good step fathers.
When my parents die, I can well imagine mourning the loss of the fictional relationship I wanted but never had more than the actual loss.

When other people judge my relationship with my parents by comparing it to their own I just raise my eyebrows and change the topic. It's nice for them to have experienced a secure loving family. All I can do is try to do the best for my DC and not pass the mistakes on.