DH - new baby and ou bedroom

[Gobbolinothewitchscat]

We have a 14 month old DS and a 4 week old DD

DD and I have been sleeping in our bedroom with DH since she was born

However, DH has said tonight that he would like DD and me to sleep in the spare room during the week as he is shattered join the fucking club

He has offered to,domFriday and Saturday nights with DD with expressed bottles so I can sleep then

However, DD is fed exclusively expressed milk (latch problem) so I'll still need to get up to express anyway in the night

DD currently gets up about twice a night. Has a bottle. I settle her and then express for about 10 minutes. Sometimes I put he on the feeding pillow and feed her and express at the same time. She is very good and I do not leave her to cry. DH seems to do a pretty rucking good impersonation of being asleep during all this

I feel totally pissed off that we are being evicted from our bedroom. DH is 6 foot 6 so saying he can't sleep in the spare room as the bed has a footboard and he can't fit in - which is kind of true.

He has moved DD up to the spare room already - which has really pissed me off. It's like a Mexican stand off as I do not want to leave our bedroom and I feel like putting the monitor next to DH's head and getting him to do the night feeds - not that he would wake up. Plus DD is then in another room from us

I'm just so pissed off. Hearing how DH is soooooo tired. Yes. So am I. We also have a 14 month old DS and I feel that I am constantly "on duty" while at least DH gets to go to work. OK - he does do a lot when he gets in but I do not think it is reasonable for him to basically order me out of our bedroom whilst chuntering on about how tired he is. When we're both fucking tired. And everything to do with the DCs feels like it's ultimately my responsability. And it's like ducking ground hog day. I'd quite like to bugger off for a week and leave him to deal with everything

Yes MsLT you're quite right, I am talking about my own bog-standard middle classed experience where most of my peers are men/women who work in reasonably well paid jobs, usually in an office, with other interesting people and like the job they are doing.

If you are chopping wood in Alaska (very tiring!) or work for a portaloo company unblocking festival loos (grim) then yes, I can see you'd probably be happy to SAH and look after the kids for a bit instead. But generally, in my little world, nearly all mums (with small non-sleeping through children), have been considerably more tired, irritable and over-worked than when in the high-powered, stressful jobs they left to have babies for. But I do concede I was making sweeping generalisations.

I suppose it depends on your comfort zone. I run my own business and am legally responsible for my patients and everything my staff do. It is stressful but it is well within my capabilities as I spent years training and have years of experience. Dealing with a newborn was exponentially more stressful as you are completely at their mercy, and need to be vigilant whilst effectively learning on the job with constantly deprived and broken sleep.

I work part time now and my work days are actually relaxing in comparison. I know what I'm doing, I control my environment and it is much less stressful all round. Despite the fact that I do the same job as DH, and the majority of child care, and the night wakings I still encounter wee wifies who believe I have the live of Reilly. They are shocked that I have not had time to get my hair cut in 10 months and seem to believe I spend 8 hours a day lying on my ass, spooning Nutella into my face.

Meanwhile "poor Mr Auditor is so tired... Why have you not made the baby sleep yet?" I am expected to do everything and the housework on top because after all "he has to work".

So I completely understand the full on, volcanic, murderous rage. Like some kind of twisted reverse Santa Claus I am keeping a list of those who vex me with their off the cuff sniping. It keeps me from slapping their faces anyway

I WANT TO WORK IN A UNIVERSITY LIBRARY - . That sounds amazing

LaQueen - can you please ask the dentist you work for about his...er...sleeping arrangements and report back.

I'm hoping he does all the night feeds before trotting of to work

They are shocked that I have not had time to get my hair cut in 10 months and seem to believe I spend 8 hours a day lying on my ass, spooning Nutella into my face.

Ah - I see you have met my MIL, little

Get a better bed for the spare room and move him in there. We did this for the first 5 months with dd3 and it worked miles better than with either of the other two when we were sharing a bed and both up all the time in the night and consequently in a foul mood with one another and the world in general during the day. If he's not completely shattered, he'll be in a much better position to be helpful to you, and he won't have any excuse for being grumpy and unreasonable. Don't split up over this - it's completely gruesome but the sleeplessness stage really doesn't last forever.
No reason you should be the one to be evicted from your bedroom, though.

I actually think that the transition from a job where you are in control and directing the work to out of control, don't know what you're doing "why is he crying, why, why?" baby care is hugely stressful. Probably because you are simply not used to things being outside of your control.

Certainly was in my case.

Before children I worked full time nights, up to 6 in a row, in a physically and mentally demanding job, sometimes we didn't get any breaks and sometimes I didn't sleep well in the day. It was still a hell of a lot easier than being sahm to a toddler and a newborn.

But I do prefer my life now, with two children. Mine are now over 3 and over 1, because of colds and coughs and work (very part time) over the last four weeks I think I've slept through, and they have, maybe four nights at most.

My husband has slept on the sofa when I needed to bring one of the children into our bed overnight, we plan to put both into the same room so we can have a spare room and bed so he can sleep in that instead when the need arises. He works full time and has never argued about this, in fact he offers to sleep on sofa.

OP yanbu, you're exhausted and it's hard work, look after yourself.

you can decide (beyond basic child caring) what you are going to do and decide to do nothing

Yes - you can decide what you're going to do. But it's then thwarted by your DC deciding to nap dodge. Or doing a gigantic shit just as you're leaving the house. Or not go to sleep,when they usually so so you can have a 5 second shower. Or that they hate every single item of food you offer them so lunch takes 5 times longer than normal.

I could decide to do nothing. That's true. But then DD would starve and DS would probably choke to death or fall down the stairs. And then I'd feel a bit bad.

My DH has never got up at night with either of our children, so I would be willing to swap!

Tempting as it is, I think tiredness competitions are a recipe for resentment. I too felt as though DH was going on holiday when he went to work, but I suspect he did not feel like this...

fairy - you are being too logical . I will have a day nanny, a night nanny and a wet nurse. Can you still get them?

Gobbolino, I feel your pain and I want to give you a million sympathetic-but-not-overbearing shoulder squeezes and send you to bed while I look after your dcs.

Your dh is being a high-handed patronising arse.

as Boobz says. YOU ARE RIGHT

Here's the thing though: if your DH has offered to take two nights, and that won't help because you still have to express, what can he do? I know I know I know, it is the way he is talking to you, the way he is deciding who sleeps where (like he is in charge - HE IS NOT IN CHARGE, btw) and mainly the way he Just Doesn't Get It. But - but - but - if there is any way at all you could drop expressing for those two nights, you really should.

When my dc1 was a few weeks old she would take an expressed bottle one night in 7 and I would sleep through her taking the bottle (in another room on my own, bliss) - waking with boobs like beach balls, but I slept - and then I would express on one side at the same time as the first feed of the day. Can you try that? My supply was unaffected.

I may be speaking out of turn because you don't want Reasonable Suggestions and goddammit, I understand that.

But if you can bear it, here is another one: whatever time on Sat and Sun both kids are up and the baby fed, make it his single sacred immutable duty that he gets the hell out of there with them, FORTHWITH. No checking email, no just having another cup of coffee. No bleating about the rain. It is like a school day: up and out, hats on, gloves on, out of there, give him however many bottles, get back into bed before you have even opened your eyes (or picked the sleep out of them) and sleep till 2pm (they have been to the park and had lunch in a cafe) - put the toddler to bed when they get back (if he has an afternoon nap) and that takes you though to maybe 3pm? Almost kinda a day off? Sort of?

I had to express for both of mine, too. The expressing and all the cleaning and sterilising really takes it out of you - the bottle takes as long to give as a breast feed, but then there's all this other stuff to do before you can get back into bed. And it's so cold and dark this time of year. I fed mine every 3 hrs, but there was so little time left after doing the expressing, and I was so tense about how time was running out, that I just could not sleep before the next round.

My DH also wanted to sleep separately, which I gave in to. It was the sheer crippling loneliness that got me as much as the tiredness.

Nipple shields saved me. Neither of my babies could latch on without them, but using shields, ds did get the hang of bf at about 4m, and dd at 6 weeks. So night feeding became cuddly and relaxed rather than stressful. We barely needed to get up. I weaned them off the shields as they got older, and bf for 14m with ds, and 2yrs with dd.

I know nipple shields are frowned upon, but they saved my bacon, and I wonder if they'd help you, op?? Also stretching the feeds to every 4 hrs?

OK, my previous comments were obviously wrong!

Get DH to buy a bigger bed for the spare room.

Let him get a good nights sleep in the spare room & he'll be able to go to work happy & then take over when he comes home.

Not even going to get into the "which is harder" argument ref jobs & staying at home!!

But the bottom line is that if you are insistent your DD is EBF and you insist you need to get up in the night to express (although I have to say I have never needed to do this ) then (however willing your DH isJ there is no way he can take the strain off you.Therefore there is no point in you both being knackered.
What I would do is either go to bed much earlier or start putting your older one to bed much later so that you can all sleep in late in the morning (that is how I coped when mine were tiny)

I totally get where you're coming from op. This sort of sleep deprivation turns me into the sort of raving lunatic who has to have the bread knife hidden!
Firstly, much respect for all the expressing. I had to express for 3 weeks while DS1 was in Scbu and tube fed, and what an arse ache it was. DH has only once been stupid enough to make reference to "helping me out". After I blasted him and informed him that "no, it's called looking after your own child you twat!" before bursting into tears (was a tad emotional at the time) he has never uttered anything so stupid since.

I would say that since your DH wants separate beds to maximise sleep then he should be the one to move rooms, and he can sort out the bed - either chop the footboard off or get a new bed.

I do understand that e has gone about this in a far from tactful manner, as someone's already said presenting it as a fair accompli rather than having a discussion with you about it. That would piss me off. As would him claiming exhaustion wen every time you're awake for feeds he's lying there snoring his head off. DH does that - turns in a bafta winning performance of someone who's sleeping then tells me in the morning he's had no sleep. Either he's a lying twat, pretending to sleep so he's doesn't have to get up or he's sleeping and just dreaming he's awake. I am fairly sure it's the third because he didn't stir when I got him in the face with milk when DS pulled off too quick the other night, then when he did wake a while later aske me why his face was wet

Well, tell him not to have any, LaQueen. God forbid that his craft be affected.

Am feeling quite sorry for DH's lovely nurse today. Am sure he will be being a total moany bastard and she can only tell him to fuck off in her head rather than shouting it in his face

Tell DH to sleep at an angle across the bed in the spare room. It is not essential for him to sleep head to headboard and feet to end.

I would also be feeling distinctly murderous if my DH had been mansplaining like that - you have my sympathy!

I would sleep in the spare bed or remove the end of it with a hacksaw or similar. Anything to get some sleep.

Being so exhausted makes you a bit crazy. But it will pass. And you will look back and laugh or sob at the horror of it all.

Primal - yes, it is my opinion (and experience) in response to a sweeping statement on what is easier or harder. A lot depends on what kind of children you have, in particular. That's why sweeping statements about who is more entitled to a better night's sleep based on an 'accepted fact' that going to work is far more tiring and stressful and needing of an uninterrupted night's sleep than staying home is nonsense.

If a couple chooses to have children, they need to be prepared that they will get less sleep for a long, long time - not that one person will take all the downsides of parenthood, even while that person is on mat leave.

I always took the view that since I had been obliging enough to push DH's gigantaur children out of my previously normal-sized fanjo, without pain relief the second time too, and then did all of the night-feeds etc, that I was Queen of the fucking World and he should remember that fact.

YANBU about the beds situation. Am I right in thinking that if he'd discussed it with you, instead of being all high-handed about it and patronising you, you might have been more amenable? It sounds like he's fallen into the trap of thinking 'Me man. Me tell wifey what to do, because she girl and not as clever as me. Graargh'. Twit.

I always found work infinitely easier than parenting two small children. Can't decide whether that's because my job (professional, office-based) was easy or I'm rubbish at parenting. Probably the latter .

Okay, maybe put your lawyer hat back on and try to think through all the options and strategies logically what would you advise a client? and put aside the emotional issues (which are valid) until you are a bit more rested and can discuss calmly.

1. Is there a simple logistical solution? people have mentioned switching beds or hacking off the footboard (you can do this with most beds)

If yes, then do this, get some rest, and revisit in a week.
If no, go to 2.

1. Can a change be made with regards to feeding? not expressing overnight or using formula at night. This would let you at least catch up on the weekends.

If yes, do this, get some rest, and discuss emotional issues later.
If no, try 3.

1. Can you bring childcare forward to now? So you can rest during the day. Can you get a cleaner?

If yes, do it, regardless of whatever else you do.

1. Can you rethink anything you're doing during the day that will make life easier?

I notice you said the 14 month old can be picky with lunch -- this is totally normal at this age. Don't stress yourself out offering food after food. Our pediatrician said it's fine for them to go even a couple days hardly eating anything, they will eat when they're hungry. You don't have to go out every day if it's too stressful. etc and so on.

I do completely sympathise with you but I think you do have some options here, and while you may not like your husband's attitude at least he is willing to do things. So get him to do as much as possible and discuss the attitude later.

I do think YABU re the dentistry though. I had a simple little cavity fill botched, a year later my whole tooth cracked off and I had to have a root canal. He's injecting things into people's nerves, etc. Just because no one is likely to die doesn't mean serious damage can't be done.