to think that only people who worship Christ should have a church wedding or baptism

[HollyMiamiFLA]

And that those people who are not Christians but have a church wedding are just doing it because they want to be the centre of attention in a lovely white dress, to walk down the aisle with music playing and that all that stuff the vicar says about God etc is irrelevant because they don't actually believe it but they're going with the flow and it's traditional.

AIBU to think it's a facade - vicars go along with it because it keeps the church going, couples go along with it because it's tradition and they can ignore the religious stuff and true Christians probably get a bit annoyed but accept it?

nothernlurker I don't really think the bible holds a lot of truth i'm afraid. The notion of Born Again is simply that. A notion. It has been given meaning by an evangelical branch of Christianity that subscribes to creationism and a very outdated, patriarchal, subservient view. This kind of Christianity is upheld and maintained using a reworked old doctrine of sin and shame and generating collective emotion and energy. It is based in people having power over each other. whether the ends of that power result in good or bad isnt the issue. It is power 'over' rather than shared understanding or respectful acceptance of other peoples differences. THAT kind of Christianity, IMO goes against the teachings of Christ entirely.

I agree PeriodFeatures. Christ would welcome anyone-as shown by all the teachings.

I don't think vicars go in for 'hell fire' any more!

No, evangelical ministers territory that is!

"So aren't you teaching me it's ok to go along with something you don't believe in because it's tradition?"

To which I would answer:

"Yes, it's OK as long as you think about it rather than following blindly and as long as it doesn't harm anyone"

It is up to you and your conscience. I wouldn't but other people are free to feel differently. The church will gain more from being inclusive, tolerant and understanding than being judgemental and excluding.

'Jesus faced a mob that was eager to execute a woman caught in adultery. He put a stop to it with a simple challenge: anyone who has no sin in their life should step forward and throw the first stone. That sentence is often cited as a reminder to avoid judging others when there are faults in your own life that need to be addressed.'

Apt in this case-people who are quick to judge others often have many faults of their own.

I didn't want a church wedding, I didn't want religious vows either. But, we compromised big time to please family and the wedding was planned relatively quickly from a distance so not much time for checking out venues if any were left at such a late date. In the end we got married in the church where our parents, siblings got married, where we made or communion and where we went to bury our family members- as it was available, could hold the numbers, walking distance to the after church venue and was a beautiful church.

So it was pretty, was available, had played a big part in our lives even if we no longer practice or believe - good enough reasons for us.

And the priest was younger than us and not stuffy at all (he had been known to cartwheel across the alter) and kept the religion element low, more about us and relationships in general.

totally with you there OP. My friend openly admitted she only got married in a church for the pictures after always taking the mick out of religion.

At the time I was married I was agnostic. It seemed absolutely fine to me to be married I. A Catholic Church since my in laws were Irish and Polish Catholics. I couldn't give a rats arse if it offended any Catholics that I was married in their church - we paid a large sum for the church, more for the organ player and flower woman. I made no promises to any god - I signed as a heathen in the register.

My husband was atheist and he didn't feel wrong being married in the church he spent so many long, tedious hours in as a child. We had our child baptized to please the priest and the family and because it is just a blessing and did no harm.

Frankly, every time I have been in a church I have paid - whether by renting it for my event or in the collection plates. If your church don't want non believers then good luck fixing leaking roofs with all the funds raised only by the ever-decreasing faithful.

"If your church don't want non believers then good luck fixing leaking roofs with all the funds raised only by the ever-decreasing faithful."

Wonders if people actually read the thread and realise that am I not Christian. Nor a born again Christian.

I have not read every single post here, so sorry if I am repeating something already posted. My experience has shown that many churches welcome contact with those who would class themselves as unbelievers because births, marriages and funerals are often the only contact non-church goers have with church and churches should be evangelical. A church might readily agree to marriage a couple from their parish, for example, but might ask them to attend a marriage preparation afternoon or similar (not a new idea) and for parents who want their child baptised to attend classes so they understand just what vows they are taking. I don't think many vicars would then stand judgement and say that a parent would be lying it they vowed to renounce evil and follow Christ.
In terms of the money: the older a church, the higher its costs. Churches cost a lot of money to keep functioning and not falling apart, much more than most people (even many church-goers realise). My church would not marry someone for the money but small country churches with only a small regular congregation might feel that this is their only option. I suspect, however, that this would not be the attitude with which they approached it.

Since the number of church members is dropping drastically and many churches are struggling, I think it's good use of beautiful buildings. Also you don't have to attend church to be a Christian, and this provides much needed income surely.

But that makes me sad. So many important things at the heart of a community. The Church builiding, Cubs a Church school. But you have to pretend / go with the flow to access them.

The sad thing is that so few people really want to support these things - we lived in a lovely rural village for many years - lovely property in a sought after area, everyone wanted the Church and other community events to survive but hardly anyone supported them. It's very easy to say 'we value the Church in our community' but you have to put your efforts and your money into actively supporting it. A few weddings a year won't really make a difference and who are the bell ringers/choir/church cleaners etc etc that everyone assumes will be available to make it a 'nice' venue? I've done my share of church cleaning over the years .

Similarly with Cubs and Brownies - these services are much valued for children but the organisation is desperate for more adult volunteers (I know, have just left after over 30 years ).

It's all very well to bleat on about tradition, but what is needed is more action.

Cubs and Brownies - I would be a good leader. Lots of outdoor experience, working with children etc.

But I would have to lie to be accepted.

Both Scouting and Girl Guiding UK have changed the wording of their promise recently; you no longer have to make a promise 'to God' - shall I send you the details on how to apply to be a leader .

I got married in a church without believing in god. I did it for DH who has his doubts about the big guy in the sky, but was brought up as a Christian and wanted a church wedding.

I'd have preferred a registry office but it meant so much to him, it meant a lot to me too.

Our vicar was lovely and knew I was an unbeliever - he was a christian in the true sense.

How do you really determine who 'worships' Christ or not? If they go to church each and every Sunday? There are people who do that and completely ignore his teachings. Anyway, Jesus said that one jot or tittle should pass from the Law and asked his followers why they called him good when there is none that is good except G-d. So maybe he never intended for people to worshup him!!If the cultural background of the people you are complaining about is Christian, I don't think you have any valid objections. I do think it would be a little strange if they are members of another religion unless it's a mixed marriage.

The notion of worshipping Christ is just weird anyway. 'Worshipping' anything is strange. it sounds archaic and ritualistic.

I don't know why non-Christians get their babies christened. That should be the child's decision when they're older.

Worship - weird but it's compulsory in schools;

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All maintained schools in England must provide a daily act of collective worship. This must reflect the traditions of this country which are, in the main, broadly Christian.

Parents have the right to withdraw their child from the daily act of collective worship and sixth-formers can decide for themselves whether or not to attend, without giving a reason for doing so. Schools must comply with this wish and must ensure a duty of care for pupils who are withdrawn from collective worship.

But it's ok - you can withdraw - even though the assembly may have other important information which has nothing to do with collective worship.

I cannot think of one good reason why there should be collective worship. If a parent wants a child to reflect about God, do it in their own time.

I have been in a civil partnership for 7yrs, but we would have dearly loved a church wedding. As a Christian who believes in God and attends church, I have to be honest that it grates on me when atheist friends and relatives marry in church and trot out the vows like nursery rhymes. There is an obligation on a vicar to marry anyone in their parish, regardless of religious belief, or lack thereof. There are 'conscience clauses' re:divorced people and transgendered people, and a straightforward 'no' for same-sex couples.
Perhaps for a limited few who marry in church without believing their vows, it changes someone's view of christianity.
At least we were able to have our son christened.
One day, the CofE may change...

Should clarify - the obligation relates to Church of England and Church in Wales

Catsize. It is changing. Slowly.It is wrong to exclude people from marriage. We have family friends at the higher echelons of the c of e who have wanted these changes for years.
years and years.