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Original poster

To ask should smacking children be banned.

466 replies

HadABadDay2014 · 11/02/2014 18:48

Just seen this on the welsh news.

I am not perfect and once I have smacked ds felt awful and never did it again.

Now I know if this was a patient at work or a member of the public I would had been arrested and highly likely ended up with a criminal record and lost my job.

So the question is should snaking children be banned.

OP posts:
Mishmashfamily · 13/02/2014 21:49

Wow tols I would say impressive post but it's actually meaningless and not what I asked. did you copy and paste that from somewhere?

Not hitting our school kids with ruler does not make them in to murderers.

The rise in youth crime is down to sociology problems. Not taking away teachers authority to hit children.

Kids behaving badly in schools are down to many things - sadly it's a symptom not the cause.

By the way, you still didn't answer my question.

Martorana · 13/02/2014 22:58

Wow, Tolstoysjudge- that sounds awful! Have you considered going state?

Blu · 14/02/2014 08:43

Goodness Tolstoy! In my DS's inner-city comp discipline is good and achievement is high.

There are children who are disaffected, come from chaotic and unsupportive backgrounds, and inclined to be disruptive, but there is a zero-tolerance approach to bad behaviour and rule breaking, loads of sanctions, loads of contact with home, and loads of ways in which disruptors are hoiked out of general circulation.

The pupils also have lots of interesting opportunities and a chance to have fun and expand horizons while they are learning. From a demography that has a high % of indices of disadvantage the school gets excellent results. High in league tables.

Behaviour management in good state schools has transformed over the last 10 or 15 years, IME (I visit a lot).

(P.S we have not bought our way into some exclusive catchment - we actually downsized so that we could pay our mortgage to a less fashionable, cheaper S London area with no tube and which could be said to be the Skoda of S London for the jokes that are made about it)

PiperRose · 14/02/2014 09:39

Any form of violence towards another human bring is an assault and should be treated as such. I find it incredible that in this day and age that as long as it doesn't leave a mark is permitted. Any good dominatrix knows how to 'warm-up' the skin so a good hard slap doesn't leave a mark (or so I've heard).

As I've mentioned before I work for SS and if we received a referral for a child marked with a slap, and found out it was only a 'one-off' then the Family Support Worker would help the parent/s with alternative strategies for coping with poor behaviour.

Oh and Tols, I think you need to look at your DC's school and it's behaviour policies, they sound terrible.

ilikemysleep · 14/02/2014 09:42

Tolstoys, I think you should go visit some of your local state schools. My son is in a local state secondary school (large city, highly multicultural, 30% free school meals) and he came home shocked recently because a child was playing with his phone in class. His rather draconian (12 year old) attitude was that this kid 'didn't deserve his place at the school because he doesn't want to learn'. Not all secondary schools are ill disciplined and a fight to the bottom...

LimitedEditionLady · 14/02/2014 10:44

Imo smacking a child as a form of punishment is the wrong approach.What does it teach your child?To me it teaches your child that if you dont agree with something someone has done being physical is the way to deal with it.Would a child not then consider it to be fine to hit another if they are annoyed?Then if your child hits out you will tell them off.What a confusing concept.
IMO you should be able to talk to your child to deal with a situation.Smacking to me shows an adult losing control and lashing out in frustration.
I was smacked as a child and it didnt send me the message that i had done wrong.I felt more sorry for myself and didnt understand why someone had hit me and hurt me after already shouting at me it just scared me and i knew theyd lost control.I didnt hit others so it hurt my feelings that they decided to hurt me.

ProfPlumSpeaking · 14/02/2014 10:48

Yes, of course.

Why on earth would you want to hit anyone, let alone a child????

MrsTerryPratchett is on the button.

VeryBoringName · 14/02/2014 11:27

Smacking a child is totally different to beating one up.

If done for the right reasons & in the correct manner - not a problem.

Don't confuse a gentle smack & admonition with someone whaling the shit out of a kids legs whilst screaming "NO" at them.....

missymayhemsmum · 14/02/2014 19:23

Okay, I shall put myself up for flaming here...
DD1 (now 25) and I lived on a boat. There were a few obvious safety rules, and a smack if she ignored them, because that's how I was brought up, and because you only get to fall into a lock once.
By the time DD was 4and DS was 1 we were in a 1st and 2nd floor flat with a car park at the bottom of the stairs. I had committed to non-violent parenting as a principle, but by the time DS was 2 he was fast, agile, v bright and constantly trying to do dangerous things- old enough to get into danger, but too young to understand abstract consequences like getting run over. He knew I adored him and wasn't worried by being told off, but we were regular visitors to casualty. I tried playpens, reins and stairgates, he escaped them all. I tried naughty steps and time outs to no avail. Eventually I was spending most of the day at my wits end physically restraining a screaming child who would do something life threatening if I let go. And not able to give much parenting to DD, either.
I rethought, and reluctantly decided to smack him every time he disobeyed me and praise him every time he took notice. I was now calm and back in control, and the frequency with which he got smacked diminished daily. (he's a quick learner). He learnt to take notice, and understood he had a choice. he got 2 warnings. Family life got much better, he was happier, and getting lots of positive attention and I could also parent DD. I don't think I ever smacked him after he was 5 as by then he could understand consequences (don't run across the car park because you might get run over) I have always explained why I was asking a child to do/ not do something. The thing is, it only worked because I could be consistent- if he ran off in tesco and threw things on the floor he got smacked in tesco.

Second time round with DD I wouldn't dare to do that because public opinion and the law has changed. I haven't had to because she is a very different child. I also think that getting through that stage between when a child can get into danger and when they can understand why not to is really difficult without smacking unless you live in an entirely child-safe environment. If your child's whole world ( as for many it now is) is childproofed house to carseat to childproofed nursery you might get away with it, but if you need your child to take notice of instructions in the real world then smacking is a valuable way to institute immediate consequences for disobedience until your child can understand logic. That's my experience anyway.
So report me.

gamerchick · 14/02/2014 19:34

dolphins pin their young to the sea bed when they misbehave until they're nearly drowned.

every time I see this thread I think of a dolphin on the naughty step.

Lions and otherish 4 legged bitey animals nip their young when they need bringing back into line.

our cousins the monkey world give their young a scelp as a community when their youngsters get too big for their boots.

Then I look at the way kids are these days.. more rights, all about the ego and knowing that nobody can touch them.. I think that not being able to discipline them the way nature intended is a huge mistake.

you can't treat a kid like you can an adult.. they should not have the same rights.. kids need bringing back into line far more harshly than an adult does.

It's just biology.

the hand wringing on this thread has been highly entertaining though.. carry on.

MrsTerryPratchett · 15/02/2014 01:59

Lions and monkeys both kill the young already in the troop/pride when they take over. Let's model them and kill step-children. It's just biology. Or, maybe we should not try to be like a bizarre collection of other animals.

OldMacEIEIO · 15/02/2014 02:42

making smacking a crime is nothing to do with how we bring up our kids, because Its clear from reading this thread that most do not, will not and encourage others not to smack.
So why make it a crime ? why do we have to impose our will upon others ? are they less than us ? not allowed a free will ?

Mishmashfamily · 15/02/2014 07:18

gamer your post just made me laugh Grin

There is a clear distinction supposedly between humans and animals.

I don't think animals have morals.. do they??
I did have a cat once that did look very judgey !

IneedAsockamnesty · 15/02/2014 07:24

missy

If you were that concerned about your child escaping from the flat and getting run over could you not have just locked the door?

Martorana · 15/02/2014 07:57

"Don't confuse a gentle smack & admonition with someone whaling the shit out of a kids legs whilst screaming "NO" at them....."

What, for heaven's sake, is a "gentle smack"?

Is it, but any chance, a middle class smack (or "tap" as I think they are called), as opposed to a working class smack?

ithaka · 15/02/2014 08:20

"Don't confuse a gentle smack & admonition with someone whaling the shit out of a kids legs whilst screaming "NO" at them....."

But if anyone hit you 'gently' it would still be assault. It doesn't stop being assault just because they could have hit you harder, that is a silly argument.

MrsTerryPratchett · 15/02/2014 14:17

"Don't confuse a gentle smack & admonition with someone whaling the shit out of a kids legs whilst screaming "NO" at them....."

I pat DD on the bum lovingly, while I'm cuddling her. I pat babies on the back to wind them. I pat dogs heads. A pat, that doesn't hurt, is different to a smack, which does. A smack is closer to a 'whaling' than a pat is to a smack. If it doesn't hurt, shock and frighten, what is the point of a smack?

JakeBullet · 15/02/2014 14:42

Just laughed my self silly over Tolstoy's last post.

the private school your child is in sounds hideous..,,, my DS is in a State school and the behavioir you describe would be unaccepatable in his school. The Head teacher can and does suspend and expel kids who behave in this way. First though he does his utmost to address WHY it is happening.....and he has kids in the school who have failed to behave in other schools....and 9/10 times they succeed in his school. Why? There are firm boundaries in place and expectations of behaviour from everybody. One rule is "no shouting" and that rule includes all staff too.

Sounds like you need to be asking serious questions about the behaviour management policies in your child's private school.

worriedabout · 15/02/2014 15:19

I laugh at the comment any dominatrix knows how to warm up the skin.

A parent who smacks occasionally cannot be compared to someone who gets cheap thrills. We are not if we did we would be paedophiles. All these people who take the extreme view of never smacking would not be sitting here debating if they really believed what they said. They would be reporting the abuse to mumsnet. Are you really as convinced as you believe yourself to be?

JakeBullet · 15/02/2014 15:41

..and gamer your post frankly frightens the shit out of me...please tell me you are not a parent.

Your attitude is frightening....no hand wringing here.....just a parent who was not smacked as a child and shock horror...did not go off the rails.

"kids should not have the same rights...they should be treated more harshly".

Do you HONESTLY believe that?

Guessing that Baby P's "mother" did as well.....that's where that attitude CAN lead.

JakeBullet · 15/02/2014 15:44

I think smacking has become more unacceptable anyway....no need for a ban as most people realize that when they smack it is because they have lost control.

The only time I have smacked it was because I lost control...I am not proud of that which is why it happened only once. You can raise children without smacking them...and the world will not go to pot for lack of smacking.

miffybun73 · 15/02/2014 15:46

Yes, it should be banned.

MBT1987 · 15/02/2014 15:51

worriedabout, I think the comment about dominatrixes not leaving marks was more in reference to the fact that this is fairly common knowledge and can be found out about quite easily. A quick bit of Google-fu for "hit without leaving bruise" brings up 45.5 MILLION results. Are you being so naive as to suggest that striking without marking is the sole realm of the dominatrix?

Oh, and FWIW, it's the person taking the smack that tends to get the thrill out of the pain. The domme tends to get her thrills from the control aspect, not the violence.

You're never going to be compared to paedophiles. Child abusers, sure, but that's not exactly much better.

StopSquabbling · 15/02/2014 15:56

Definitely, it should be banned.

PiperRose · 15/02/2014 15:58

FFS worriedabout here's a grip, now go and have a lie down whilst you congratulate yourself for being the first person to drop the word paedophile into this thread.

I have dealt with people who abuse children and witnessed the lengths they go to to make sure it is never discovered. As I also said in my post if SS were called in to a situation were it was a first-time occurrence we wouldn't whip the kids out or send the parents to jail, we would work with the family on parenting strategies.

And yes, I truly believe that hitting someone else even if they are a child and/or related to you is assault. I also believe that only thing it shows is a lack of parenting skills and/or self-control on the part of the parent.

(Oh and by the way it's the person paying the dominatrix who gets the thrills and they're very rarely cheap)