To ask should smacking children be banned.

[HadABadDay2014]

Just seen this on the welsh news.

I am not perfect and once I have smacked ds felt awful and never did it again.

Now I know if this was a patient at work or a member of the public I would had been arrested and highly likely ended up with a criminal record and lost my job.

So the question is should snaking children be banned.

tols so what would your solution be? To start beating our kids? Is that all kids or just bad ones? Who's going to take them to task if their parents don't want to hit them as I know plenty of teachers that would refuse to act in this way ?

Would you volunteer your services?

What age would you start dishing out the beatings? 1,2,3,4,5 ?

What if you dished out a beating and you were actually wrong? You couldn't take it back could you ?

Your views are very Alf Garnet and I can't take them seriously or thinking of an old man with a grotty white vest

I've brought up my children in a country where any form of hitting your children is illegal, and has been for some years now. I don't know of a single case (either from personal experience or from the newspapers) of a parent being prosecuted or having their children taken away for a single smack. What the law means in practice is that it's absolutely not socially acceptable for parents to threaten smacking, and so parents largely rely on other forms of discipline - ah yes, those notoriously undisciplined Germans!

The law does mean that when there is sustained abuse (smacking on a regular basis or particularly hard hitting that leads to damage) it's much easier for social services to intervene and prosecute. There was a recent incident of a cult (the one that published that particularly poisonous book about how God wants us all to thrash the hell out of our kids to show we love them) where the children were taken away on evidence that they were being systematically smacked. Does anyone seriously object to that?

The one time I ever witnessed a parent smacking a child here (in over twenty years) was a father at a nursery event who lost control and smacked his son who had thrown sand in someone else's face. There was a shocked silence and then the nursery nurse took the father aside and had a word with him. Don't know if the chat was about taking anger management classes or her saying 'next time I report this', but he certainly was not prosecuted. I'm sure they would have kept a close eye on the family from then on though, and that father lost a lot of respect from the other families. Even so, I'm sure the first response from social services would have been to offer parenting classes.

I don't think that millions of people should be threatened with being classed as criminals, just so that it just possibly makes it easier to prosecute a few people who are committing a criminal offence anyway (what you describe - hard hitting that leads to damage, or regular hitting - are assault / child abuse and can already be prosecuted in the UK).
I gather that there is a very laissez faire attitude in German education - that children should be left to get on with it and regulate themselves - which leads to increased bullying and health and safety issues. We have German friends who moved back there from state schooling in the UK and were very concerned. Stereotypes aren't always accurate.

Mishmash, I already said that I dont agree with smacking children except for a tap on the hand if they are about to touch something hot, for example.

The point I was making is that some children dont have supportive parents so their discipline has to come from somewhere, school being the most likely. If teachers had more control (not smacking) over these kids I think it would be an improvement on what we have already ie no control.

tols but wouldn't it be easier to remove the child/ hot object rather than a 'tap' on the hand.

So what could the teachers do to discipline in a non namby pamby way??

Your posts have changed tone.

Yes it should.

Mish,
Teachers should have more responsibility to discipline children as they did in my day.
Kids know that the teachers cant touch them and play to this.

You know what I mean why are you being obtuse?

Do you honestly think today's society is better than before?

What do you think teachers should be able to do?

If teachers had more control (not smacking) over these kids I think it would be an improvement on what we have already ie no control - tols

What should they do then tols ??? What did they do in your day?

You didn't answer my question.

Your posts are confusing tols as up thread! you insinuated that teachers should be more heavy handed when dishing out punishment to stop the kids from turning in to murderers.

Now you implying that smacking/ corporal punishment is not needed.

Make your mind up !

I live in an area where there are stabbings, gangs and anti social behaviour, and many of the youth who are out of control and have no respect or empathy are the same ones that got belted or bashed about at home.

Hitting children isn't the same as discipline.

Mishmash, are you bored? You sound like a truculent little teenager.

Go back and read what I wrote and stop spoiling for a fight.

So I've been and re- read all your posts tols and I would still like my question answered. Why can't you do that ?

I'm not spoiling for a fight I just asked you a question but you can't / won't answer it.

I think it should be banned. What lesson does walloping someone teach? I've had one quite difficult dc - never needed to hit them.

So hitting children makes them behave? I find that interesting. I work with some people who have gone through the residential school system (Canadian First Nations people). PLENTY of beatings there and a massive abuse and crime, addiction and suicide issue in the survivors.

Hitting children doesn't make them law abiding adults. Neither does not hitting them. However, I don't feel I need to justify not hitting my child. I do feel that if you hit, you do need to justify it. It has to be BETTER not the same, because you are hitting.

Smacking makes no sense and I like to teach my children that there are better ways of dealing with things, it is not acceptable to hit anyone just because you don't like their behaviour THIS
it horrifies me that someone could plan to hit a child, threatening them with a smack when they get home filling them with anxiety about what is to come. A decent loving parent should not need to resort to threats of violence, carrying out violence or shrieking abuse at their child. I know many lose it and do lash out, even decent parents but there would usually be apologies, tears, guilt and a vow to never lose it again, this doesn't make it right and I despair at the amount of abuse I see aimed at children in the street, shops etc. Trouble is making it illegal won't actually stop it happening but it should be illegal so people think first. support for those struggling should also be more readily available without stigma. wish I knew what the answer was to make everyone with children love, respect and care for them

I do think that smacking children should be illegal. I don't really need to add anything as all the reasons why have already been said.

I will say this though. A child who runs into the road and gets smacked for it is probably far more likely to run away that bit faster the next time they think they're going to be smacked.

Yes it should be. I live in NZ and it's been banned here for years. Totally hypocritical for parents to say "don't hit" to their kids if they smack them. An adult hitting anyone - child or adult - is assault.

Disruptive behaviour is the STUDENT'S responsibility, correct management of it the TEACHER'S... too often is a teacher marked down because of badly-behaved students irrespective of how well that teacher addresses each instance of disruption during the course of the lesson.

Only when PARENTS are made accountable for their children’s behaviour will there be an incentive

In the last 40 years the word "discipline" has become a dirty word in the English language. This has created the rude, dirty-mouthed, disrespectful kids we see today who behave as if they are owed something in life. Everything has turned on it's head and adults are now scared of kids. Discipline is confused with physical abuse, which is not the case. There is a serious lack of boundaries and we adults are so preoccupied with not offending others, we forget to use the common sense our parents used when we were growing up. I think ANYTHING that restores boundaries, which in turn gives reassurance to kids, has to be a good thing. Parents AND teachers need to work together to ensure that kids do behave properly and show respect for their elders, if for no other reason, adults provide the basics for their lives to go on, and give them the tools to be able to deal with life as they get older. It's hardly surprising you see kids carrying knives, being in gangs if they are told it's a free for all and they can do what they want. Adults are in charge and if kids want respect, they have to earn it, like everything else in life. The sooner they understand that aspect of life, the sooner we can all enjoy a better life together.

BUMPING UP FOR MISHMASHFAMILY.

Since you're bumping, I was going to let it go but what the hell...

Your last post sounds like you dislike and mistrust young people. I have the pleasure of teaching young people about once a week. Before you assume they are naice MC children, they are all marginalized, some offenders, some addicts, some homeless. I love doing it. They are engaging, intelligent, funny and interesting. I have to work harder with them than my usual classes but if I do, they respond fabulously.

I find if I go into the room with the attitude that the most challenged and disruptive kids are the most interesting in a way, I can engage them. I have used for example LARPing and Call of Duty: Back Ops to teach financial literacy because that was what the two most vocal and would-be PITA kids were interested in. I love the classes, I won't give them to the other facilitators because I believe that I can do it and I love it.

No caning necessary.

Nope it shouldn't be banned.

There is a world of difference between tapping a toddler on the hand to shock them into compliance instead of allowing them to run into the road/pull hot pan on themselves etc & beating a child. Confusing the two scenarios just reduces the level of protection available for those children who really need help.

The focus for SS and anyone involved in CP needs to be on those children who are being beaten, not waste precious resources on every parent who has smacked a child for stealing sweets in the supermarket, sworn at a grandparent etc.

Like the lunch box police, and fines for attending family funerals in term time, a total smacking ban would just alienate sensible, ordinary parents from the authorities, leaving them without the time to chase up that kid who is being tortured.

If there is the money to properly enforce a smacking ban in the public purse, then we have the funds for better staff training in schools and for parents to be given access to genuine evidence based behavioural management courses. Over time parents and teachers would then suffer less stress and be less inclined to lash out violently. I say this as a parent of an SN child who has suffered two physical assaults by staff entrusted with his care because they lacked the skills to cope with him. This isn't just a parenting issue.

I am actually sick and tired of my childrens education being disrupted by naughty children in the class. The teachers cant send them out as they cant be left unsupervised so they have to stay in the class, throwing pens,paper,swearing you name it. It is a joke.
THE CHILDREN HAVE NO RESPECT FOR AUTHORITY. The parents dont care if their children disrupt the class and the teachers are scared of the parents. This is in a private school I hate to think what lessons are like in Inner City schools.

I dont have a mistrust of young children I mistrust the system. It takes a village to raise a child thats why we all need to work together to help young children behave in a respectful manner.

Yes, ban it completely, then horrid parents can take the DCs home and lock them in wardrobes or threaten them with being abandoned or whatever nasty treatment they choose to use behind closed doors.

Pointless.

Tolstoys, it sounds like your children's school(s) don't have adequate behaviour management policies. This is nothing whatsoever to do with corporal punishment.

In the inner city comprehensive my friend works in there are senior teachers time-tabled to walk around the school & remove miscreants who have been sent out of their classrooms for misbehaviour. There are several teachers time-tabled to do this every single lesson.

The children are then deposited in another classroom, supervised by more senior teachers, & their behaviour is followed up - there may be detentions, parents are contacted etc. It takes up a lot of time but means that students who want to learn are able to do so, & the school has been judged outstanding in terms of student behaviour.

I've taught in 3 different comprehensives too, & while none had a system quite as good as this, there were always behaviour policies & ways of dealing with difficult behaviour. I wasn't scared of parents (except the one threatening one I had to deal with ONCE) & the senior management teams certainly weren't.

I don't doubt there are schools out there with problems, poor leadership & little support available to teachers when it comes to behaviour management. But with the current Ofsted regime, there's really nowhere for schools like that to hide.

You sound very unhappy with your children's experiences. Have you spoken to the Head? What is the school doing to sort this out? Are you 100% sure that teachers are never allowed to have children removed from their classrooms, however badly they behave? If so, that's a major cause for concern, but it may be giving you a distorted view of what most young people (& schools) are like.