To ask should smacking children be banned.

[HadABadDay2014]

Just seen this on the welsh news.

I am not perfect and once I have smacked ds felt awful and never did it again.

Now I know if this was a patient at work or a member of the public I would had been arrested and highly likely ended up with a criminal record and lost my job.

So the question is should snaking children be banned.

mishmash.. well I dunno, seeing what people turn into after drinking fermented veg

oh give your head a wobble Jake.

They have banned in other countries.
Many years ago.
But they have not in UK.
As far as I know there are no plans to either.
People have different views as to what constitutes abuse.
But the law only says that it shouldn't leave a mark.

I just wonder if anyone actually knows if there are real plans to change the current uk law?

A parent who smacks occasionally cannot be compared to someone who gets cheap thrills. We are not if we did we would be paedophiles. All these people who take the extreme view of never smacking would not be sitting here debating if they really believed what they said. They would be reporting the abuse to mumsnet. Are you really as convinced as you believe yourself to be

I have reported several concerning things to mumsnet hq,in many cases they do not even have a persons real name.

Head wobbled gamer ....er no...no difference in my opinion.

No
I am so old skool. Bear with me whilst I paint a massive target on myself….
My children are old enough to be naughty but not old enough to be reasoned with much or to understand deferred punishments. BUT I have rules:

1. Never smack in anger

2. Never smack more than once – i.e one sharp tap on the bottom is all.

1. Only smack as a last resort or for repeated particularly grievous offence. Example – hitting or biting me or another child more than once.
2. Warn them that if they continue the consequence will be a smack. They get the smack if they continue or if they repeat the action i.e defiance
3. When they are old enough for punishments that are longer term to mean something I won’t smack them any more. I’m guessing this will be around 6.
4. We always have a cuddle shortly afterwards.

I think because of the above I VERY RARELY NEED to smack. They get a warning and know I will follow through if they don’t stop their behaviour. So they stop. They know the boundary and they are happy and secure because of it in my view. My feeling is that it is a short sharp shock that immediately defines the boundary when the behaviour is unacceptable.
I don’t smack when my children have panicked me by doing something dangerous. I don’t smack when they have enraged me or embarrassed me. A lot of people who profess they do not smack actually smack in anger, but feel themselves morally superior because they don’t smack (usually)
I actually think emotional withdrawal from a child such as sending to their room for long periods, ignoring them, being cold towards them or angry for long periods is damaging. I think long drawn out punishments for little children are confusing and unfair. I think children who are not disciplined are insecure and can feel out of control and very unhappy because they think they must be in charge, not their parent.

I am on the fence on this one.When I was a very small girl the headteacher put me across his knee and nked me in the classroom in full view of everyone for a relatively minor offence.I was absolutely mortified and didn't want to go back to school again.
But on the other hand I think behaviour was better in schools when their was some final sanction that the children feared.What is there now?

spanked me

I see many comments that it not legal to smack an adult, so why a child? This is true, but what about the reality of violence in the world as opposed to the simple legalities. If you as an adult were to behave like a naughty toddler, and for example, run around your office hitting and biting your colleagues because you are in a bad mood do you think that no-one would respond physically? You think the police never restrain people who display dangerous behaviour to themselves or others? You think that being restrained is a cosy thing that never hurts? Do you think it is impossible to go too far in your comments that you provoke someone to violence in a pub?
I think failing to take discipline seriously is abusive. I think letting children grow up thinking no ultimate authority beside themselves, that there are no boundaries and consequences to actions, that they are untouchable, and that the only response to their outrageous behaviour is people trying to reason with them. It is dishonest, dangerous and grossly damaging to their futures. How about we make that illegal.

This thing about smacking a child who has done or is about to do something dangerous (spill hot drink, run into traffic etc.) - I don't get it. If my child doesn't have the capacity to understand what is dangerous, I have to protect him or her; and if I fail, I don't see why the child should be punished, even if I have been frightened.

I think smacking a hand out of the way, or grabbing or shoving a child out of harms way even if it hurts them, is completely different from smacking for punishment. If you stop them getting hit by a train or falling into a crocodile infested river, by all means rugby tackle them to the ground if you have to!

Isn't the rule currently 'nothing hard enough to leave a mark'? Not sure how I feel about that.

On the one hand I would never smack my DC, but if you are of the "I would only smack them if they did something life threatening" inclination then I don't think you are a bad parent. I'm not convinced by the whole "if you smack, then you teach them that violence is okay", because I was smacked occasionally as a small child and I would never hit my own DC, but at the same time, I understand why my parents did it and I don't particularly care that they did. I think if it's only in rare and very serious circumstances children can understand the difference between that and punching their sister because she took their toy (children who don't get smacked often do this anyway!). Children also get pushed out of the way for safety, accidentally bashed in the face because you didn't know they were standing behind you/etc all the time so I think it would be really hard to legislate a total ban and would cause unnecessary paranoia. The difference between your child and a random stranger is that you are unlikely to have to worry about this with a stranger, so the law just says you can't hit them.

I think the main concern for me though about the current law is that there is probably a fine line between smacking and abuse - I'm sure there are ways that the particularly nasty can think up to hurt a child badly without leaving a mark. I don't know how we would get around that, because sadly child abusers will probably always find a way to abuse no matter what the law is.

Absolutely it should be banned.

Pregnantberry re your point that you were smacked as a child and don't now think that violence is okay, I get that, and agree to an extent.

But an argument I find convincing re banning smacking is that legalised smacking promotes a general culture where violence to children (in whatever form) is subtly acceptable, and there is a legally sanctioned difference in how children vs adults are allowed to be treated. So even if certain individuals choose not to smack, or keep it as occasional/light tap or whatever, those who do physically abuse their kids can do so in a cultural climate where they have some (albeit incorrect) justification that what they're doing is legal and therefore okay.

thegrumpallo I just read the thread properly and saw your post. Do you really hit your 13 month old when she is being difficult about eating? Even posters who believe in smacking in some situations in extremis ("running into the road" being the one usually cited) would be shocked, I suspect.

You might be surprised at the reaction you would elicit if you told other parents in RL that that is what you do. It honestly isn't normal, constructive or remotely acceptable. Sorry. I know being a parent is tough and frustrating but hitting a baby is the wrong side of anyone's line and means you need more support, and other techniques to fall back on. I am sure you love your child so please do reflect on this for your sake and for her sake.

I am not ashamed to say I have smacked my DD before. I have probably only ever done this a handful of times in extreme circumstances.

As @sandfish wrote above it is only in those same circumstances I have ever smacked her.

I would NEVER smack her without prior warning.

I would NEVER smack her for something that was an accident or not deliberate. But there are certain things that I personally find unacceptable for example rudeness and yelling when she can't have her way over something. Throwing things when I've asked her to stop several times. I have used this as a last resort.

My reasons for this is because before I had my daughter, and even now, I see some absolutely abhominable behaviour from children. Rude, greedy, demanding and bratty and I promosed myself I would never let her become that way. As a result when she hit the terrible twos I knew I needed to nip it in the bud and time out didn't work so the last resort was a smack. And when I say smack, it's one on a bare bottom not even hard enough to make a mark. She knows that im really cross at that point and I have to say I think it has worked. I have not smacked her in a year now and don't ever feel I will ever need to again, the threat normally works.

Also, I'm a single mum so we have a very close relationship so I really don't think I've done any harm to her.
I was smacked and it helped me to learn my lessons when I was bad (and tbe I was an absolute cow to my younger brother!) so I desreved it.

I don't understand why people say there is no need for smacking of I'm honest. There is. There are some shockingly behaved children in this country which I think many parents are blind to. A controlled sharp smack as a last resort that stings enough to send a message to change their behaviour (after warnings) will never have ANY lasting damage.

Of course this is IMO.

On a bare bottom, clairey1982? That's really excessive.

I think many people lack understanding of the fact that tantrums are developmentally normal.

I don't believe in smacking. I don't think its necessary or acceptable to inflict pain on vulnerable small people who are in my care.

Should be banned..... I hate it. Its nasty, bullying behaviour against smaller, vulnerable human beings who are not in any position to defend themselves. So much easier to smack...lazy parenting at it's worst.

How horrible you felt the need to smack on your child's bare bottom Clairey. Is that for maximum effect? Just because you haven't left a mark means nothing.

Clairey1982 Your calm explanation of how and why and when you think it's fine to hit your poor child makes slightly upsetting reading. I have a 7, 5 and 1 year old. I know how children can push your buttons. You give her 'a warning' that you're going to hit her? Horrible.

Gamerchick Your posts make chilling reading and I hope you don't have young children.

Hitting children is vile, bullying, ineffective, bloody awful parenting.

I was hit as a child and I cannot comprehend why a loving parent would do this.

The excuses for it are sickening.

I remember this thread. . A highly entertaining read right there.

I'm not particularly arsed how anybody sees my posts tbf and fwiw I don't need to hit my kids I've perfected the look over the past 20 years.

No, it should not be banned. It was never my first choice of punishment, but a very last resort and something I only ever did once or twice in 20 years of parenting.

A ban would criminalise a large number of very reasonable parents who have been simply driven to distraction by their children.

I don't like the nanny state really, and think that we have gone far enough along that road in many areas, including discipline of children.

A ban would criminalise a large number of very reasonable parents who have been simply driven to distraction by their children.

Losing control is certainly not a reason accepted in a court of law for assault.
Why then should it be accepted as part of being a knackered and strung out parent?
If anything, being 'driven to distraction' is likely to result in more aggressive smacking.

I like *gamerchick" posts on this thread, btw.

I too have had 20 years of practise at the look, and it works. Once they knew it, nothing else was needed.

You can view my posts however you like. It is what I think, and what I do. I am not about to change now.

Odd how I do seem to have a good relationship with my daughters despite it.

There is a really bizarre idea on mn that children are innocent Angels who should only ever be disciplined by chatting (discipline means teaching as we are repeatedly reminded...). This is regardless of their behaviour because, after all, they are little angels really. But then they hit a certain age and suddenly they should face the full wrath of the law for the smallest misdemeanour (smacking a child, for instance).

There is a very false logic here.

I don't think there is anything wrong with a smack or two with an open hand on a child's bum. It's an instantaneous short sharp shock which brings them up short and puts the parent back in authority.It does no more harm than a few seconds sting.
As long as not over used, then it is fine and has been fine for hundreds of years.