To ask should smacking children be banned.

[HadABadDay2014]

Just seen this on the welsh news.

I am not perfect and once I have smacked ds felt awful and never did it again.

Now I know if this was a patient at work or a member of the public I would had been arrested and highly likely ended up with a criminal record and lost my job.

So the question is should snaking children be banned.

Ithaka - no it is different - because in your argument it is an adult (who can express themselves in a coherent manner etc) making the complaint and the result is (normally) that the wife would leave.
Whereas would that be the right approach for a smack - taking the child away from its parents?
And for things like drink driving - attitudes have changed - but mainly through fear of the consequences...the adverts still use that approach you will lose your licence, you could go to prison etc.

I would say that now it is petty much universal that smacking is not socially acceptable - most parents either don't do it or not in public...so it is already becoming hidden ...and that I feel is dangerous.

tols the smack on the hands with a ruler wasn't great either. My mother was given the strap across her hands by mistake in school. She was reporting that she was ill, the head thought she was with the 'naughty gang' that had been sent there too.

Smacking/hitting does not work.

This argument that children have lost respect - smacking doesn't create respect. Fear, contempt, perhaps an outward show of subservience but never respect.

^^^^ yes to above

I don't believe it should be banned. I have also never believed that it harms children mentally if they are smacked occasionally for something that they have done that is really wrong. I don't like the comparison between "hitting" "abusing" and "smacking" -

"hitting" is what my child does to me when he is in a bad mood and lashes out. I don't hit my children it would be abuse.

"abusing" would be me over-reacting and walloping him really hard.

"smacking" is when I have told him not to hit and he continually disobeys me, so I smack him on the back of the hand. I have done it a handful of times.

Also, I have come across a couple of people in my time who have proudly said that they have never smacked their children and then perform the most bizarre form of punishments like shutting them in their room for hours at a time.

As you can tell I have smacked in the past. As my children get older there are more options available to me for discipline. My eldest is now very receptive to explanation and we don't need to go beyond that.

The namby pamby approach that schools have to discipline do not work either.
Murders and stabbings are common place with teens nowadays and it will only get worse if respect and good behaviour is not instilled in children at home and at school.

Do you have figures to back up your statement that "murders and stabbings are common place with teens"

Or do you just read the DM?

That was to Tolstoys

At school we had the strap- a thick leather thing which teachers would strike a pupil's hand with, in front of the whole class.

I vividly remember it was always the same children who got it, week after week and the same teachers who used it. So it obviously didn't work.

Several teachers used to say "I don't want to do this, it will hurt me more than it hurts you".[Angry] I used to feel feel sick hearing that. IMO they were just nasty individuals who liked abusing children.

How would this be policed? The amount of parents, good parents who aren't abusers, who have at one time or another smacked a child on their hand or on their bum, probably amounts to quite a large percentage of parents in general. Will they all receive a criminal record? All be assigned a social worker? Will it not mean that they will be lumped into the same category as parents whose children are actually at risk, who are being genuinely abused? The current law seems to be pretty clear and is there as a benchmark to stop punching, kicking, hitting with an implement, hitting hard etc, as it rightly should as that is abuse/assault. So no, I don't think an outright ban would work and I don't believe smacking a child on the hand or the bum is abuse or does it make a bad parent. Parents who constantly criticize/shout cause more damage long-term than one's who smack rarely.

I don't think smaking is an ideal or indeed very effective form of punishment but I don't think criminilizing it (beyond the limits already imposed) would be helpful at all.

Most parents don't smack or have maybe smacked once or twice, felt bad about it, and never done it again. It is dying out. Dragging some poor mum who lost it when her toddler ran into the road/6 year old spat at her/4 year old refused to keep his seatbelt on between junctions on the M1(this was my sister, she is still traumatised by slapping her son's hand on the hard shoulder to stop the 'game') into court to be publically punished helps nobody.

Just about all the forms of sanction we impose on children if they misbehave: naughty step/grounding/removal of personal possessions - would be totally inappropriate in an adult context. So we either except that the adult/child relationship is somehow different or we emancipate all toddlers and let them get on with it.

Or, we encourage alternatives and let parents decide what is best, within carefully circumscribed limits. Which is the situation that we have now.

BarbarianMum You put what I was trying to say so much better. Agree totally.

Worriedabout.. so your child hits you, he disobeys you and then you give him a smack? Can you not see the faulty logic in that one?

I have two special needs children and when one couldn't communicate it was really really hard to find a way of making him understand that his behaviour wasn't acceptable. Smacking didn't come into it though. I took some courses to find other ways.

I don't judge parents who do the odd smack when they are at the end of their rope and then regret it then work hard to not do it again. I do think badly of those who smack often and justify it though. I am sure no one cares what I think about them though ;)

Of course no one should smack full stop but I do see a difference between someone who smacks once and regrets it and never does it again and those who actually believe it is acceptable to do so.

I have a friend who went to school in Africa. Apparently a common form of punishment was for the child to stick out his/her tongue, hold it flat on the desk, and the teacher would then hit it with a ruler (not that it did her any harm )

No way should it be banned -

I really cant be bothered to read through all the replies to this thread but can imagine that most on here reckon its dangerous and should be banned.

People need to understand that a disciplined smack is very different to harming or beating your child.

I'm a secondary school teacher. Murders and stabbing are not commonplace amongst teens. That's a completely ridiculous statement. I would also venture to suggest that demonstrating that violence is acceptable to children by smacking them is probably not a way to prevent them from becoming stabbing, murderous teenagers. I would never hit children in my care and don't believe that doing so would have any kind of positive effect on their behaviour.

We are not talking about criminalizing parents but about changing attitudes and I think a change in the law would be a good step towards this.

Murders and stabbings are common place with teens nowadays and it will only get worse if respect and good behaviour is not instilled in children at home and at school

tolsDo you really think children that are capable of this come from non violent homes?? really ???

I never hit my dc and they are not murders! It's nothing to do with teachers not being able to smack kids, it's to do with violent shit parenting.

What barbarianmum said.

The problem with banning smacking is that it stigmatises the result of lack of a better parenting style without actually fixing the problem (being a bit of a shit parent).

There are many very good strategies for bringing up children in mutual respect...but not everyone even gets exposed to them.

We are mostly just muddling through doing roughly what our parents did (or the polar opposite!).

If society as a whole wants better parenting and better behaved children and then adults we really need a concerted push to educate parents.

Only after that has happened would banning smacking make any sense.

"Just about all the forms of sanction we impose on children if they Barbarian- "misbehave: naughty step/grounding/removal of personal possessions - would be totally inappropriate in an adult context. So we either except that the adult/child relationship is somehow different or we emancipate all toddlers and let them get on with it."

This is always trotted out on here too. The sanctions you list aren't inappropriate in an adult context. The law tends to fine you, give you community service or imprison you depending upon your transgression. Removal of privileges and loss of freedom are exactly the consequences of continued inappropriate behaviour in an adult. I personally don't use time out or naughty steps but it's fairly logical to see that removing a child from a situation or removal of personal privileges absolutely does have its mirror in the adult world. Same as the world of work. You can expect to lose your job/money, have certain bonuses and rewards witheld etc for various transgressions and errors.

And I don't think banning smacking would lead to otherwise good parents being hauled up in front of a judge. There are plenty of criminal acts which rarely see a judge. We have on the spot fines and warnings for all sorts of minor transgressions and the people who commit them sometimes have mitigating circumstances and defences. It's about changing the climate in which we raise our children and shifting attitudes.

There is no situation on earth where smacking a small child is the right choice. And as for 'it never did me any harm', that's incorrect too. You think smacking is fine. That's the harm right there.

It's also worth acknowledging that those people who are touting ASBOs and stabbing people left, right and centre as they leave secondary school, are not so much lacking in discipline due to a namby pamby education system but more they are often subject to abusive violence themselves. There is a correlation between violent adults and violent childhoods. Thank God schools aren't also meting out the same retribution.

I don't believe that you should pass a law (against smacking or anything else) if you don't intend to enforce it, or at least to provide written guidelines as to when you will and won't enforce it. And based on what people are saying they wouldn't want an anti smacking law that allowed a defence such as teaching a child about health and safety, or being very upset or stressed at the time, or whatever. It would be a straight - someone in street saw you smack your child, you get a fine (or would all those on here who feel so strongly about it prefer imprisonment and the child going into care?) Do you think that the 2 or 3 year old child should be required to give evidence in support of the prosecution? Is it ok that the person shopping you to the police is someone who hates you? Or is your child, who got upset yesterday because you wouldn't buy him sweets, and has now called the police? Would any parent found guilty be reported to SS? If so, what would they do?
It would be a huge huge mess, and frankly the police have more than enough on their plates as it is, and things will get worse as police forces are cut.
If smacking is such a big issue, then campaign for funding for training to be freely available for all parents at convenient times (with childcare) etc. Being a parent is very very tough for some parents, and what they need is positive support.

No EXCUSE TYPOS I dont read the daily mail.

www.met.police.uk/foi/pdfs/disclosure_2012/july_2012/2012060000643.pdf

Inner city crime is a big problem, a young boy was stabbed in a town near my home recently and I live in a very affluent area. Not all stabbings and murders reach the national news.

Of course children from homes with supportive parents are less likely to turn to crime but not all children have the support of parents to show them wrong from right.

I am anti-smacking, and also anti a ban on it for reasons so articulately posted above.

So giving those children a good thrashing would sort them out them?

I think they probably need care and guidance from school, not corporal punishment.

Yes it should be banned.