To ask should smacking children be banned.

[HadABadDay2014]

Just seen this on the welsh news.

I am not perfect and once I have smacked ds felt awful and never did it again.

Now I know if this was a patient at work or a member of the public I would had been arrested and highly likely ended up with a criminal record and lost my job.

So the question is should snaking children be banned.

Ladies, if we love our children then smacking isn't an option, it's our duty as loving parents to discipline our children when they need it in order to drive out the rebellion which as human beings is sadly in us from birth. Can you ever remember teaching your toddler to throw tantrums? Of course not, but everyone of them could be awarded a BAFTA for their performances of choking, convulsions, emotional blackmail, aggression etc.

The bible, teaches - "Whoever spares the rod hates their children,but the one who loves their children is careful to discipline them." Proverbs 13:24.

Discipline isn't violence, because there isn't, or at least shouldn't be, any malice involved, in fact the quite the opposite - smacking is an expression of parental love.

In our house the rule has always been that spanking is reserved for two 'crimes', lying and rebellion. Accidents which lead to things being broken - whatever the value - have never been punished by spanking because they weren't deliberate. The state has the power and authority to punish those caught 'going prepared' to commit a crime. The law rules that it is the intent which is the primary factor in determining guilt, the act merely follows. (except 'strict liability' crimes of course)

The real test that we should apply before chastising our children is - What is my motive? Is it anger, frustration or love? If it's the first then you need to ask your children to forgive you because you have effectively abused them and that does cause real damage. If it's love then they will be very grateful that you are doing what is right for them

I hope that helps for you mums and dads who feel conflicted over the issue.

God bless you.

Janezh

Is that a joke post janezh ? If not ..... wtf?!?

I would ban hitting children (no different to smacking).

In most instances when a parent hits, it is because they have lost control of their emotions. This should not be an excuse. It's just shit parenting.

There are lots of alternatives to hitting to help children learn - time out, counting, removal of toys, explaining and talking etc etc.

My DSiS hits her DS. This usually happens when she is at the end of her tether because she didn't deal with his behaviour at the start.

So what has my Nephew learnt from his Mum smacking him? He has learnt that when he is unhappy, can't get his own way or wants some thing - he hits! My DSIS has made hitting/smacking acceptable. He now thinks that it is ok to hit his Grandad and other kids when he doesn't get his own way.

He tried it at my house! Hitting is a straight time out in my house (no warnings). It only took 3 visits to time out before he stopped hitting at my house.

And for the 'a smack never did me any harm' brigade. It clearly did harm you, as it means you now have no issue with hitting as a form of punishment. It has been normalised for you.

I think Janzeh's post must be an illustration of how not to give any credence to such texts.

A physical attack in little people should not be acceptable . Like in grown up people.

This question is moot in lots of countries, where it is already illegal.

Oops, Janezh's.

It's illegal to hit a stranger so I can't understand why anyone would think it's ok to hit a child just because you are the parent. Hitting or smacking, as people prefer to call it to make it sound 'nicer' is done by people who cannot control their frustration or anger.
Of course everyone is human and they make mistakes but I think if you are the type who smacks, a parenting course would help. My mother smacked me all the time and often far too severely. It may have stopped me being 'naughty' at the time but it also made me more devious and resentful
I never smacked my children but I was still able to discipline them successfully.

I think many people resort to smacking too quickly, smack too hard and generally use smacking as a discipline method inappropriately.

My parents smacked me when I was a child and I lived to tell the tale. They reserved it for when I did something REALLY stupid or willfully naughty, I can only actually remember being smacked 3 or 4 times in my entire childhood but boy, I didn't repeat the behaviour that led to the smacking.
For me it was more the shock value of thinking 'holy cr*p, I'm not doing that again' rather than the physical force of being tapped on the bum. Obviously this relies on not over using it as a form of discipline.

Once was when I was about 6 or 7 and I was absolutely enthralled with this massive bull my father had bought, he was in one of the barns and I was desperate to go and see him so I snuck in (despite father telling me several times to stay away from him as I could easily be killed).

He found me in there and without a word grabbed my arm, pulled me into the yard, whipped down my pants and gave me one swift whack on the bare bum. I am sure the shock of it was what made me burst into tears like a little girl and run into the house to look for my mummy but I never went in to the cowshed again unaccompanied.

Law or no law, my kids will get a smack if they pull anything like that. nothing wrong with it if done appropriately. This softly softly approach is the reason there are so many bloomin brats around today!

I still have very vivid memories of being smacked and the fear and pain associated with it.

This softly softly approach is the reason there are so many bloomin brats around today!

Really? Interesting therefore that some of the most appalling behaved children are regularly hit.

As I said in my post above, it must be done appropriately and it is only one tool in your arsenal.

There is a big difference between smacking and beating / child abuse!

Who mentioned 'beating' man?
Or do you object to the word 'hit' as opposed to the fluffier 'smack'?
Does hitting a child mean it is being beaten?

But then you are one of the many who equate lack of hitting with the raising of a brat. Convenient.

Totally agree it is the shock value of a quick smack which doesn't leave a mark etc and which is given so rarely it stays with the child. It has to be a very serious offence to warrant it certainly not an everyday occurrence.

As I wrote above I smacked DS (2)for hitting his disabled sister with a wooden toy. It was the first time he was smacked and really shocked him. He hasn't hit her since and yesterday starting throwing water over her in the bath and a plastic duck. All it needed was a very stern voice and he got the message. No throwing anything.

Used rarely it works. It's not something I want to do and hope I don't need to do it again, but it am not having a 'no smacking policy' at the expense of a 'being hit' policy for DD. You have to look at individual children and individual problems. It's ridiculous to have a one size fits all ban. Parents have to be trusted to do what's right for their child.

A ban is already in place insofar as people are not allowed to physically abuse children.

I'm not proud of myself but my dd (5) struck me in the face the other evening, got me right under the eye, it wasn't an accident, I struck her back quick as a flash, not hard enough to leave a mark at all but it made a noise IYSWIM :( She howled straight away and DH heard me smack her, he was in the next room and burst in, picked her up and gave me a verbal pasting.

As soon as I did it, I instantly regretted it and went through apologising to her and explaining how it was very bad to do it.

I think it might be banned up here in Scotland already? Maybe its just under 3's. I think it is odd that you can hit a child but not an adult, that said every situation is different, a parent losing it once maybe doesn't deserve a criminal record.

Cantbelievethisishappening
Please stop nit picking at the precise wording I use.

I was making the point that a quick smack when used appropriately is NOT child abuse as some people seem to believe it is. Anyone with any common sense should be able to appreciate that (whether they agree with my point or not).

Regarding your comment about the lack of hitting / raising of brats, I do not believe that hitting ensures good children and I strongly resent your implication that I use this to justify my choice to occasionally use smacking to discipline my own children - as if I know I'm doing something wrong deep down!

I do genuinely believe that the reluctance of parents to discipline their offspring DOES lead to brats. In my experience 'shock horror, couldn't possibly smack a child' brigade are more given to what I term 'woolley' parenting and do seem to have less well behaved children.

I realise that others may have different opinions but those are mine. While I was not always an angel as a child, my parents always said that they could take myself and my siblings anywhere as we knew how to behave ourselves. I have chosen to emulate their example and discipline my own children in the same way as I was disciplined and that includes, where appropriate, a gentle tap on the bum and I will not be made to feel guilty by the PC brigade, nor will apologise for it!

I wasn't smacked as a child, I don't smack my children but we do discipline them and they certainly know how to behave Man. I do get your point but not all non smackers are woolly. I think the issue is that some people don't smack or do anything at all and some who smack do it in an uncontrolled way that achieves little either.

smacking isn't banned in Scotland. it was shaking, hitting on the head, hitting with an object like a cane, belt, slipper etc. that was banned.

I don't understand why most people on this thread see a quick smack on the butt (not given in the attempt to hurt or leave a mark) associated to abused? Abused to me is completely different as it is a completely deliberate attempt from an adult to hurt a child with no regard to the pain received by the child (be it physical or emotional).

I am going to go against most people and say that this shouldn't be ban. I am actually going to go further and say that the odd times I have been smacked on the butt by my mother definitely benefited me and prevented me from doing some of those things again.

My mother was pretty strict with me and my oldest brother (who is younger than me) as a child and I really do think it benefited me (and probably him as well) greatly. Unfortunately, she turned into this new generation mum who is extra relaxed and doesn't dare to set rules and stick to them now and I have two other younger brothers who are currently 13 and 8 and completely lack manners! When I asked her why she's been raising them differently than me and my brother she simply explained that my brothers were the new generation and things were different now and unfortunately she is right but different definitely doesn't mean better in that case.

I currently feel like kids became some type of Gods to whom you can't say no or reprimand without looking like a monster to the eyes of the rest of the society.

I'm personally more crossed at my mother for letting my brothers turn into twats young adults who won't know how to handle authority in a job from a boss (or somebody else) and who will think the world revolves around them and owes them everything, than for the few odd smacks I have received for being 'naughty'.

To me loving your child is making sure that by the time he is 18 and moving out of your house he has learnt how to behave in society and understand some important values like respecting others and being nice in general. It doesn't have to involve smacking but if if what it takes is a couple smacks on the butt to get there, then it's not the end of the world.
When I see so many kids giving up on school to stay home and play video games or watching TV while their parents don't say a word, don't take actions, and work their ass off to pay the bills while dear son is laying on the couch the whole day, I can't help but feel sad for everyone involve and think that this would have never happened not even two generations ago.

It's completely reasonable and understandable to be against violence towards a child (who wouldn't ?) but in my opinion it's a bit delusional to think that a big voice and an explanation will always fix everything, I believe different things work for different kids and while smacking should be used as the very last resort it should, in my opinion, not be banned.

Some of us are with you, Melimelo.

I agree Melimelo. Children are viewed as special snowflakes and demi gods nowadays.

@Topseyt, Thank you. I am glad to know I am not the only one who think this 'new' generation has a problem. :)

I am very young myself (not even in my mid 20's) but I can't stand seeing my brothers lives/futures (and the ones of my and their friends along with many others) being compromised for the complete lack of education of parents who think their kids will hate them if they give them the kick on the butt they so desperately need. (I am not talking about a real kick on the butt, let's be clear. )
Kids/Teens need and want boundaries, they want to be told 'no' even though they hate it because it makes them feel safe not unloved.I actually felt much more unloved when as a teen I could just do whatever I wanted because my mum didn't want to bother 'fighting' as she knew/assumed teenagers would do as they pleased anyway. I really felt like she didn't care that the stupid choices you can do as a teen would possibly ruin my life (thankfully they didn't).
She, for example, has let my brother drop school (complained a bit but well) and he is now 18, has been out of school for 3 years and has no diploma whatsoever and no professional experience. So now what? what's for him ? How is he going to get a job (that he loves) and fit in society ? He definitely dug his own grave but she, as a mother, (to me) didn't play her role and it saddens me even more that it's happening every single day in thousands of different households in countries where kids and teenagers have the luck to be in a part of the world were education is accessible to all and free (or almost), and where everything has been put in place for them to be successful but whose parents have literally given up on them and their future by not wanting to give them proper rules and an education were respect is expected and were dropping school to stay hom, lay on the couch and not work is not an option.

In most instances when a parent hits, it is because they have lost control of their emotions.

Really? Where is your evidence for this?
Smacking is a measured punishment.You are talking about lashing out in anger or frustration which I would consider beating - not in the same catagory at all.

I have not read the full thread but my own view is that if you are generally a shit parent then smacking is likely to be done for all the wrong reasons and too excess in both force and regularity and have, like the rest of your parenting a very damaging effect on your child. If you are a good parent and spend 99.9% of the time acting in the best interest of your child a few snacks are likely to have a virtually negligible impact on your child's development but might teach them how wrong you consider a single thing to be on the rarest occurrence you slap them.

The problem is if the culture supports slapping then the usual shit parents, who do actually exist in spite of pages and pages of Mumsnet excuses for them, will carry on with impunity deeply damaging their children in a culture that allows them to. It is like drink driving you have to stop the farmer who drives at 15mph to his isolated farmhouse on a country lane which he alone inhabits after a single pint in order to stop the young fella who drives city streets inebriated risking many, many lives.

Children are viewed as special snowflakes and demi gods nowadays.

Rubbish, children are precious and we are the carers. There are many ways to discipline children that are fair and reasonably. Hitting them is not one of them.