Court has ordered I take my 6 month baby to abusive ex-husbands home

[JessKB1]

Hi All....I've just joined mumsnet as wanted some advice. My ex-husband left prior to me giving birth and was abusive during my pregnancy. He's had contact with the child as I want my baby to have a relationship with her father (even though I want nothing to do with him). However he took me to court re contact and CAFCASS & the judge both agreed my baby & I would be safer at his home (lives with his parents) rather than at mine where contact has been taking place. They were aware of the abuse when making this decision. A contact order was made in ex's favour. My baby is only 6 mths old and always cries when ex is nearby. Had the first contact session at his home and within 10 minutes of arriving he began threatening me. I somehow managed to stay there for 3 hours even though my baby was extremely upset to the point that she nearly stopped breathing due to her crying and ex not letting me console her. I'm terrified of going again and worried about what could happen. I'm in the process of getting legal advice but have been told that I will need to continue going. Does anyone know if a contact order can be changed?......Thanks

If you cannot talk to him - have you tried talking to his parents? Perhaps tell them you really want it to work, but the baby won't bond with him if she is picking up on tensions and thinks you've 'abandoned' her during those times.

Make it very clear to them that you wish for the situation to work, as is proved by previous contact sessions, but that you do not bring out the best in each other and that needs to be worked on for the future, and could they help you.

Just an idea. As for his continued threats towards your person (which is not going to make you feel very comfortable with leaving your child with him, I'd be worried too, the very idea is making my heart race!) perhaps record your meetings with him on your phone in your pocket? That way you will have proof of his continued threatening behaviour if it gets any worse.

Most phones, even cheapy ones, can record for around an hour at a time. But do not tell him you've done it at any point, just use it if you need to if it gts to a stage where he IS threatening your child, or taking your child from you, which I assume are the two biggest thing you're worried about really?

One more thing: babies are affected by abuse when in the womb!

They hear things, and the stress runs in the blood/system.

That man doesn't deserve contact with that baby. She deserves to be protected from him.

you need a social worker to attend with you state you are fearful of him and explain about the threats record it if you can to prove it to them first

just a question what were the threats? was he threatening you? are you breastfeeding is this why they haven't pushed for access without you there?

forcing you to sit there and not console her for three hours is abusive (in my personal opinion) was he trying to console her?

personally i would have picked her up regardless if he tries to stop you physically that is showing aggression and you can get an amendment (hopefully)

I'm unsure about this one

My experience ( quite extensive) with CAFCASS is that they look at all sides and listen to both parents. Op says they were'unwilling' to listen to her suggestions

Now why was that?

Agree with Hissy.

This man needs to prove himself and getting threatening and leaving his daughter to scream so much that she is not breathing are not signs of a man who loves his baby.

-ffs--

although yes, there must be more too this...courts make mistakes and so on...but must be more to this.

Yes a contact order can be changed however its unlikely to be quite so soon in the absence of the type of behaviour that would cause a social work to call the police and request a EPO.

They usually expect a few attempts to fail before they even consider changing it.

If you do record any conversation at the contact be very careful not to play it without a court ordering you to, after you get home transcribe the recording but do not delete it, you can admit the transcript in court but not the recording.

If you feel unsafe you can call the police and leave,make sure you always attend with a third party.

Above all see your legal advisor ASAP and let them know what happened they will be able to tell you exactly what to do based on all the info as opposed to the very limited info we have.

Oh and stop listening to dick heads who tell you that even if abuse is involved you have to fall over your self to appear reasonable, you do not.

zippy domestic violence when committed against a parent is in its very nature also an incident of child abuse and it is a serious issue that does need to be taken into account when dealing with contact,it's never as simple as " he/she never hit the kids so they are perfectly safe" a baby hearing their mother being threatened or deliberately intimidated is emotional harm. Children can and do get removed from parents for that very reason.

OP, how did your ex stop you from consoling your baby? If he was physically threatening, restrained you or was shouting in baby's presence then you are not being unreasonable in stopping contact.
Document what happened and if it was an assault (ie he touched you) report it to the police.
You will have to go back to court to get the order changed. If you have a solicitor you can afford and trust then great, if not it is possible to represent yourself.

Yes rain I agree... Must be more to this that we aren't hearing

joules

People use the phrase "not willing to listen to me" in many many ways from the simple

"They did not do exactly what I wanted them to"

To the literal "they did not listen"

I've had clients describe the system as not listening to them purely because they did not understand the system,one client who walked out with a no direct contact but 2 times per year indirect contact via letter,believe she had not been listened to.

Another who said exactly the same thing when her ex got supervised contact,another who did get a no contact order but could not change her child's name.

What it often means is a compromise has been enforced. I've never known the system really not listen even when they should not have bothered. They tend to listen and try to find a workable solution or think you are wrong.

Zippey do you have children? I only ask because as a mum the idea of sending my baby to contact with someone who is known to be abusive makes my blood run cold. I could never ever do that. I can't understand your point of view at all.

Op I don't think your child is going to benefit from a relationship with this man. I wouldn't have contact at all.

It's not the op's decision about contact! I wish people would stop giving false hope and unrealistic ideas....

The court starts from the premise that both parents are equal, being a 'mother' doesn't give anyone the automatic upper hand

No but being a none abusive parent when the other parent is a known abuser does.

Well it doesn't sound like the court were overly concerned.... No contact centre and the mother ( victim) still present at contact

Who was your legal rep op? A solicitor? Mackenzie's friend?

Fwiw,

The courts start from the view that its the child who has a right to contact with both parents if it is in that child's best interests to do so.

No contact centre is not unusual sadly. In some areas places are so limited that they tend to be mostly used for really dangerous situations.

I've also known situations where the NRP has said if it was at a contact centre they just wouldn't show up because they did not wish to be observed by professionals but they would agree to the other parent or another family member supervising.

I've got clients who have had children involved in cp intervention due to DV been told in no uncertain terms that if they did not leave a relationship that the children would be removed and that allowing the ex to be near the children would result in further intervention,then be ordered by a court to hand the children over beg for a contact centre and not be able to get it due to a lack of available spaces.

Jouls not always, there is a thread somewhere of a mother who suffered DV and was raped by her ex, court ordered contact with 5 year old ds. Ds gas told mum ex is abusive to him physically and emotionally. Cafcass guardian has been awful towards mum and her ds, seems to be unusually siding with ex, whilst totalky disregarding ds, his feelings, wishing and needs. She has even requested more contact for ds with ex, despite this being detrimental towards ds, and trying to get reverse residency which is totally abhorrent. So Cafcass do not always listen to both sides of the story.

Absolutely shocking sock, ss should be requesting supervised contact from the court then, instead of threatening to remove a child because courts have ordered contact. It is not the RP fault!

I don't understand.

Why did the judge say it would be 'safer' if contact took place at his home rather than yours? What's wrong with your home?

What do you mean by 'threatening' you? How exactly? What did he say?

Its the other way round.

If the courts order it then that's the end of it a SW cannot encourage or tell s wine to defy a court order. I'm saying that's whats happened before they got to court.

It's one of the reasons why a certain type of client of mine will stay in a low level abusive relationship for much much longer because whilst they are there they believe they can protect the children from the other parent when you break up that becomes much harder.

It's why I always encourage people to speak out seek help and get legal support.asap

S wine? Someone

Oh right wow

This happened to me several years ago, the contact wasn't court ordered but was decided in a CP meeting where one of the professionals present had been exP's school nurse. Much "oh you were a lovely boy" and "of course you wouldn't hurt anyone" preceded the decision to allow him into my home to decorate the DC room (ended up doing it myself) and do bedtime stories (never picked up a book, or a child).

After the first contact was spent with him smoking in my sitting room, telling me in great detail about his sex life with his new gf, and handing me a knife telling me to cut his throat if I had the guts all in front of the DC, I decided to voice record the next contact.

The first recording was much the same as the above, so I went ahead with the next contact and recorded that too. That time was horrific, he ramped up the abuse to unspeakable proportions and locked the DC in their room whilst he did so. He proudly announced that this was the reason he came, not for the DC, but because I was his whether I like it or not.

It makes for pretty grim listening, but the next CP meeting was almost worth the injuries. He never saw my DC again. That was 7 years ago.

I have no idea if this would work in a court setting, and if there's a chance the verbal abuse may escalate into physical abuse it would be downright dangerous. It is what worked for me though, no winners in situations like these sadly. I'm sorry you're in this place.

Frank I think you were lucky you were able to do that as courts were not involved. I don't think courts take that kind of evidence seriously.

The courts are a law unto themselves from what I have heard from others experiences in here. It's hit and miss if the child gets a good CAFCASS guardian, there are some great ones and some god awful ones