Court has ordered I take my 6 month baby to abusive ex-husbands home

[JessKB1]

Hi All....I've just joined mumsnet as wanted some advice. My ex-husband left prior to me giving birth and was abusive during my pregnancy. He's had contact with the child as I want my baby to have a relationship with her father (even though I want nothing to do with him). However he took me to court re contact and CAFCASS & the judge both agreed my baby & I would be safer at his home (lives with his parents) rather than at mine where contact has been taking place. They were aware of the abuse when making this decision. A contact order was made in ex's favour. My baby is only 6 mths old and always cries when ex is nearby. Had the first contact session at his home and within 10 minutes of arriving he began threatening me. I somehow managed to stay there for 3 hours even though my baby was extremely upset to the point that she nearly stopped breathing due to her crying and ex not letting me console her. I'm terrified of going again and worried about what could happen. I'm in the process of getting legal advice but have been told that I will need to continue going. Does anyone know if a contact order can be changed?......Thanks

[sticktomummy]

Looks like I've opened a can of worms lol

[sticktomummy]

Sockreturningpixie I agree with you there and thats what my hv was trying to get across to me. The court in so concerned about the law and the right of children to have a relationship with both parents that if it is enforced (especially if one parent is said to potentially cause harm to the child) then it is the child who will suffer. How's that in the child's interests? God forbid that this happens then who is to blame?

Spero you mention not having evidence but when acts of abuse occur most victims don't think about calling the police or telling their health professionals they'd rather try and work things out oe decide it's best to ignore what's happened.

[fuzzywuzzy]

Courts absolutely are biased towards the abusive father for contact. The theory appears to be it's fine he can abuse the children every fortnight as they're back wth the mother/non abusive parent and as there are no concerns with the resident parent that's fine. We suffer the fall out.

OP I'd go for a fact finding hearing where you can present all your evidence of abuse. Even then there's no guarantee contact will go to a contact centre. It wasn't in my case.

It's bitterly ironic that for me I had ss turn up at my door telling me they would remove my children if stayed with ex, but the second I took steps to remove him from our lives he suddenly got all sorts of rights over the children.

In my case I spent ££££££ and finally got a DV expert judge who after six years stopped all direct contact.

I was also accused of parental alienation etc thank God I got a CAFCASS officer who was concerned for the children and a judge who read every piece of evidence and questioned the DVIP and CAFCASS officer in detail.

My children suffered massively during this time my eldest would be physically sick having to go to contact.

You have all my sympathies OP.

[Spero]

stick, I agree with you and that is why we need URGENT and massive change to the way we talk about relationships, the way we educate our children and the way we as women decide what we will put up with.

I don't doubt that a lot of women are too scared, too tired or too confused to know what to do. There is a lot of this 'o but he doesn't hit me how can he be abusive' crap. We are conditioned to be in relationships, to think ANY man is better than no man. It is sad, it is destructive and it has to stop. Men too need help to learn how to navigate relationships. I don't know why as a species we are so bad at it.

but the cases I deal with often involve allegations of serious physical attacks that would have left injuries. Yet there is never any attempt to seek medical help, OR when we get the GP notes disclosed there are visits around the time of the 'attack' and no injuries noted.

That is when I start getting suspicious.

But there is not a 'bias' towards contact, that is not a helpful way of putting it. The courts have to respect and apply the LAW which is that contact should happen unless and until you can show it is not in the child's best interests.

If you don't believe the law is right you have to petition your MP for change because only politicians can change the law, you can't blame judges for applying it; that is what they have to do.

[pigletmania]

I don't believe the law is right, just because you cannot prove abuse does not mean it does not happen, there are a lot of grey areas. It's very hard to prove emotional abuse, and ohysical abuse tat does not leave marks. Th Chid could be afraid to speak out to anyone but te mum who they feel comfortable with

[pigletmania]

Mabey the RP went to the go so that the attack can be logged in medical notes as evidence, despite no injuries, not all attacks leave physical marks

[pigletmania]

Oh my goodness that is bloody awful, you cannot say that te courts are totally not biased, even experts in the field like sockreturning can see it

[Spero]

I can say the courts are NOT totally biased because I have 15 years experience in the family courts and I know they are not.

Piglet - I don't doubt your sincerity and your genuine wish to be supportive. But it is NOT helpful to spread this kind of thing - you are doing nothing but getting people upset and frightened. You will put people off getting the help they need.

any specialist family law solicitor knows exactly what is going on re domestic violence. complaints that judges are 'out of touch' are simply wrong; they have extensive training and are well aware of all the work of Glaser and others.

But you have to understand how difficult it is for the court to work with vague, unsubstantiated allegations of 'abuse', particularly if you are arguing that because of that 'abuse' a child should not have any contact with his father.

You will have a tough time ahead of you.

this does NOT mean the courts are biased, it means the courts have to make decisions on evidence.

SO - keep a diary. Keep notes. Report any violence or abuse to the police, go to see your doctor, speak to Women's Aid.

Don't just sit on the issue for years, encouraging contact and THEN say - but he is abusive. You can see how this will complicate a situation very quickly.

[pigletmania]

Look Spero i am not an expert and do not claim to be, this is an open forum where people discuss matters. I am just voicing my opinion, there are a couple on here with similar.

[pigletmania]

I agree with you on that spero of keeping notes, records, and going to the police and professionals who could help, not just nit doing anything, getting good legal representation

[Spero]

No. You are not an expert I agree. I also agree you are entitled to a have a view and to express it.

But you can't just play the 'it's just my opinion!' Card and expect a free pass from me.

Your opinions - that courts are biased in favour of abusive men - are wrong. And you do more harm than good by spreading them about in the way you do.

[pigletmania]

Spero I have just commented on threads as you do, I am not a one woman army going to Number 10 and protesting. Anyone knows this is an open forum and tge majority of us ( yes me) are no experts and to take any advice with a pinch of salt. I am not telling anybody not to get help just voicing an opinion, which I am not saying is expert advice.

[pigletmania]

Baby has put her point across quite well

[Spero]

sorry, but I don't agree that you 'just comment' on threads like I do.

You repeatedly urge people to do certain things based on your views of the 'system' - i am thinking particularly of the babynamechange threads, which is the ONLY time I have ever reported a thread in my 5 years on here because one of the contributors got so riled up they suggested going to a judge's house and physically attacking them!

I give my 'opinions' based on years of experience in courts with 100s of cases, years of reading cases and research, years of conferences, lectures, and discussions with other professionals in all sorts of fields.

So I think my 'opinion' carries a great deal more weight on THIS subject that what appear to be just expressions of ill informed prejudice from others.

[pigletmania]

My goodness spero I and others were giving baby advice, it's up to her to take it, by then she was totally fed up with the system, I did nit influence her, she is able to take or leave what advice people give. She was at her wits end and myself and OTHERS were trying to help. I never advocated going to a judges house and hurt him my goodness you know how to knock somebody down!

[Spero]

I didn't say you advocated assaulting a judge did I?

But the 'support' you were giving her was based on your own biased and misinformed view of what was going on generally in the family court system. I don't deny that things may have been going very badly wrong in her particular case.

But you and many others kept repeating - well what else can you expect from such an appalling biased system etc, etc.

you may call that support. I call it scaremongering.

Sorry, don't want to derail ops thread. I just wish some people would think a bit more before they post, particularly when they are being cheer leaders for really foolish things.

[IneedAsockamnesty]

Oh my goodness that is bloody awful, you cannot say that te courts are totally not biased, even experts in the field like sockreturning can see it

Would like to clarify that I did not say the courts are biased towards abusive parents I said they are biased towards contact.

Meaning they have to be because that is the law.

A child has the right to a relationship with both parents if it is in that child's best interests most of the time a relationship with both parents will be in the child's best interests and that really will be most of the time.

It becomes more complicated when domestic abuse is a factor.

A historical abuser who has accepted wrong doing taken action to work on his/her issues to prevent further abusive behaviour has the potential to in the future be a good parent.

One who won't admit fault and as a result won't take action to prevent further abuse and uses contact as an opportunity to further abuse the other parent rarely will have children whose best interests are served by having a relationship with them

The hard part is working out what type of abuser your dealing with.

A judge can only make a decision based on the information they have.if that information contains no actual evidence and no admission of abuse and little more than he said she said where the actions of the parent alleging abuse don't suggest fear or intimidation then they can't really treat it as a DV situation.so they have to start as if its one of the cases where it is in the child's best interests.

I have utter faith in the courts obviously yes mistakes are made just like any other service but faith in them I do have, they are the reason that thousands of families I have come into contact with over the years are safe.

[trufflehunterthebadger]

why can't the visits take place at a contact centre ?