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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that if you are grown man at a swimming pool dressing your small daughter...

337 replies

2cats2many · 04/02/2014 19:09

..you should use the clearly marked, clean and almost-empty family change room rather than the women's change room?

I approached him and said quietly: "Do you know that you are in the women's change room?" To which he replied: "Yes, but she insists in coming in here and the alternative would be a big, screaming fight. I'm actually quite uncomfortable." He then made a swift exit.

Well, guess what- so are all the women who are using the changing room in the reasonable expectation that they would be able to get showered and changed in the mostly shared facilities (just a few cubicles) without being joined by a man.

In his position, I would have the big screaming fight.

OP posts:
VegetariansTasteLikeChicken · 05/02/2014 13:54

Why woudl a 4 year old boy and his dad feel uncomfortable using a man's changing room? But not a womans? Confused?

Daykin · 05/02/2014 13:55

A mistake would be to walk into the womens thinking it was the mens or family. What this man did was prioritise himself and his dd over everyone else. It was a choice, and a choice that could only be made by someone with a massive sense of entitlement and privilege. It's like those wanky 'life hack' things that pop on FB where middle class, straight, white men show off about how they get people to bend the rules for them.

I think that there is a really strong chance that he is not a perv, but I don't feel inclined to say it's fine for people to break the rules because they want to and everyone else should put up with it.

misspixietrix sorry for being thick, but are you saying that your sister should be accompanied by your dad into the womens changing room, so she doesn't have to change in front of men, or are you saying that men shouldn't be in the womens because your sister, and others don't want to change in front of men. I don't understand how it's OK for men to take their dds into the female change, to eliminate the need for them changing in front of men, when by this very action it means that those girls are now changing in front of men. Confused

To whoever it was who said I should get over my sexual assault for my MH, thanks but I am as over it as I am going to be. My MH is fine but I still am not at the point where I can stand cunt naked in a room and have a fully grown adult man walk in, unexpectedly, without it bringing up a whole heap of emotions. This quirk doesn't actually impact on anyone if they follow a few basic rules - such as stay the fuck out of the womens changing room.

BertieBottsJustGotMarried · 05/02/2014 13:56

You do know women can be paedophiles too? What on earth is a paedophile going to do in a changing room that they couldn't do in the pool itself. (ie, look at children). Better not ever take your child out in public, then.

Far more likely they'll be at home downloading something nasty off the internet, sorry to say.

Different gendered changing rooms are nothing to do with preventing sexual assault and everything to do with privacy for adults who have reached puberty. Children under 8 haven't done so, so they are irrelevant to the discussion. They also tend to need help getting changed, which is why they are allowed into the opposite sex's changing room if required, in order to accompany their opposite-sex parent.

2rebecca · 05/02/2014 13:59

My local pool is now unisex as well with a few larger rooms some with changing tables for family groups and disabled changing. Everyone has their own cubicles and no embarrassment for mixed sex adult child combos. Their are a few shower cubicles in the male and female toilets if people want to strip off and shower properly rather than use the unisex shower heads in a row, keep your cozzie on, type showers.
Seems to please everyone. This bloke was out of order. When I used to take my son swimming at the pool we lived near then which had single sex changing rooms and no family areas (small town) I wouldn't have gone in the gents just because he had a hissy fit. When he was 8 he went in the gents unaccompanied.

Daykin · 05/02/2014 14:00

Join - like I said before you'd be happy for a young girl to be in MALE changing room with her dad?

You have NO IDEA the kinds of people who are there. You could get lucky and everyone's normal but there could be the perv/paedo in there eyeing up a 4 year old. maybe I'm overreacting but I would NOT be happy with a young DD of mine going in male changing room with her dad!

But you'd be happy for her being in a female changing room that has men in it Confused

starlight1234 · 05/02/2014 14:04

It is about supervising a child...

My Ds goes in female..If he was been supervised by a male he would go in male..

I would expect the same if I had a DD...

Misspixietrix · 05/02/2014 14:07

No Daykin. Someone on here said the Dads DC SHOULD have took her in the changing rooms. I simply responded (in fact so did somebody else saying no he should use the family one) that had that been my Sister. She's in her 30s now by the way but what happened to her happened when she was four. I'm not going to go into any more detail. I was just trying to point out had that have been my then Sister at OPs DCs age you wouldn't have stood a chance of getting her in a MCR. Regardless of whether it had small cubicles in and if it was our Dad taking her in. HTH. I didn't actually say either was okay I was just responding to another Posters comment. He was BU to 'swan in'. OP isn't BU to expect him to use the Family Changing Rooms. However. Because it sounds like a one off to me I'm giving him the Benefit of the doubt as it were and I'm sure he's learned his lesson.

K8Middleton · 05/02/2014 14:08

Good grief only on Mumsnet...

Applecrumples YOU are over 8 years old too so get out of the men's changing room!

OP you are so obviously not unreasonable, the man was a total idiot. Or a perv.

All those happy to get your bits out for random men - have a word with yourselves and stop imposing your weirdness on others by saying it is fine. It is not bloody fine.

All those who feel sympathy for this man, who have made excuses for him and have suggested that maybe because he's a dad not a mum he might be clueless - please note this is 2014 and we don't have to make excuses or concessions to someone because they are a man. It is deeply sexist but mainly, total bollocks.

Misspixietrix · 05/02/2014 14:08

Sorry Daykin that first sentence is meant to say someone said he should have took her into the Male Changing rooms.

Viviennemary · 05/02/2014 14:13

He had absolutely no business to be in the ladies changing room. I think a word with the staff on duty would have been in order here. I've never heard of such a thing!!

minionmadness · 05/02/2014 14:24

It's simple really. I wouldn't expect to see an adult male in the female changing rooms.

When I take dts's (nearly 6) swimming we go into the female changing room.

When DH take them swimming he goes into the male changing room. Although DH doesn't go very often due to work.

The adult uses the appropriate changing room for their gender irrespective of the child's gender until said child is 8.

Things will become muddier for us when dts1 (ASD) is 8 and he will be expected to use the male ones by himself which he will not be capable of doing. I had thought I would still take him in the female changing where we also have family cubicles which we use for his sensory issues, but on reading some comments it would seem some think this is wrong.

Incidentally dts1 goes to a disability group swim and on that particular evening there are boys up to the age of say 11 who still get changed in the female changing rooms albeit in a cubicle. As far as I'm aware this is not an issue for anyone there.

I can't see any issue with this.

GhoulWithADragonTattoo · 05/02/2014 14:34

Minion - I think you have it just right. In your case it sounds like for the disabled group swim the rules are relaxed so boys up to 11 can still go into the female changing room so their mums can assist them and that's fine as it suits the group using it. If you go swimming to a public session I would say you should take DTS1 into the family or disabled changing room once he's over 8 to ensure the privacy of women and girls using the female changing room.

Orlea · 05/02/2014 14:35

My dad always took me to the men's changing rooms with him when I was little. He put me in a cubicle if there was one, if not he held a towel round me whilst I changed. As soon as I got old enough to care (when we started swimming lessons at school) I went to the ladies changing rooms on my own, all proud of myself for being a proper grown up Smile He would never set foot in the ladies though, maybe definitely he's old-fashioned, but he'd never do that even if the male changing rooms had been reduced to rubble.

That said, I hated having to change under a towel when there wasn't a free cubicle in the ladies...

Most pools in my area are now just mixed cubicles, some are larger than others, but no gender divide except in the toilets. So it's an unusual situation for OP to have found herself in IME, but I think the man really shouldn't have been there... It's maybe a bit harsh to report him though if he was just unaware of the family changing rooms.

sunshine401 · 05/02/2014 14:43

There was a family room to be used yanbu at all.

HelloBoys · 05/02/2014 15:23

Little you have made it clearer.

Yes I realise women can also be paedos but I don't have the time or inclination to find the stats.

Of course the vast majority of men in the male changing room would be fine but I as a female (non mother) wouldn't be happy. Maybe the man in question wasn't happy to take his DD into a male changing room, you'll never know. and for those who read I thought YANBU and he should NOT have been there. I didn't say he should have been there.

JoinYourPlayfellows · 05/02/2014 15:26

Maybe the man in question wasn't happy to take his DD into a male changing room

Tough shit if there hadn't been a family room, but there was.

Either way, he doesn't get to go into the women's.

If he thinks men are so pervy that his little girls had better not be near them in a state of undress, best he doesn't bring her swimming at all.

ErrolTheDragon · 05/02/2014 15:34

Minion - In cases like yours, it would appear the issue is that there is inadequate provision for children with disabilities. Perhaps you should raise it with the management before your DS reaches 8?

One place I go to has mens, womens and a disabled changing room - this is a safe space for a disabled child (or adult, I guess) to change with their helper regardless of gender.

Stinklebell · 05/02/2014 15:46

Maybe the man in question wasn't happy to take his DD into a male changing room, you'll never know

Sorry, but that's too bad. There was a family changing area available, he should've used that.

Adult males should not be in female changing rooms, adult females should not be in male changing rooms.

Whether I should get over my 'hang ups' is beside the point, I do not expect to find an adult male in a female changing room. My 12 year old, who is just hitting puberty and is extremely embarrassed about the changes to her body should not have to deal with an adult male in a female only changing room either.

And yes, when my daughters were younger and went swimming with DH without me, they went in the men's changing room, DH accompanying them into the female changing rooms was never an option

IceBeing · 05/02/2014 16:13

I find it uncomfortable to be naked in front of strangers but I can't say it matters much which variety of bits they happen to have.

I would find it more uncomfortable to be naked in front of acquaintances than strangers, again their sex organs don't make much difference.

I don't feel differently about men or women seeing DD (2.5) naked. I don't think DD feels differently about male or female naked bodies she sees.

I would imagine given the shear volume of photos of naked people on the internet available for free any time any place, the thrill of the peeping tom is in doing something illicit not in seeing people naked. IF all changing was mixed sex the peeping tom would presumably cease to exist.....

RestingActress · 05/02/2014 16:21

"If all changing was mixed sex..."

the number of people swimming and using the gym would drop by at least half IMO as most people do not want to be seen naked by the opposite sex

K8Middleton · 05/02/2014 16:22

Oh FFS. If you can't stick to some basic rules then you can't do the activity.

Not wanting your child to be changing in the men's means you make choices. Either you go to a facility that has family cubicles or you don't go swimming. It does not mean you are allowed to invade the privacy of others by using the wrong changing room.

If the rules somewhere make life difficult then the choices are to persuade the venue to make changes or go elsewhere. If the rules are somehow discriminatory you have legal redress and a public interest that can effect change.

In no circumstances is it acceptable to just make up your own rules because you don't like the existing ones. That is just unbelievably entitled antisocial and selfish.

I do think some of you are just posting some ridiculous things because you are contrary, not because you really think it is acceptable to behave like that.

IceBeing · 05/02/2014 16:23

oh I mean the OP is NBU...as you say the rules are that it is women only. I just think the rules are counter productive and stupid in the long run.

GhoulWithADragonTattoo · 05/02/2014 16:29

RestingActress - I the comments re unisex changing rooms are anticipating communal showers in which you keep costumes on and then cubicles of various sizes to meet the needs of individuals, families, those with disabilities etc. I don't think anyone means changing in a communal area in front of people of the opposite sex :)

2rebecca · 05/02/2014 16:30

Mixed sex changing rooms tend to be cubicle only. At my pool everyone goes into cubicles and there is no open space where people can get changed outwith a cubicle.
It's a simple solution. No-one gets naked in front of anyone unless they choose to share a cubicle.

K8Middleton · 05/02/2014 16:31

I wasn't FFS-ing at you IceBeing. It was a general FFS to all those thinking it's fine to just act like they own the place.

Just in case you thought I was being terribly rude.