To have removed DD's things from her room?

[GoatsHaveStrangeEyes]

I will try not to drip feed but this may be long.

DD1 is 9. She is extremely bright, funny, helpful and polite. She is very mature for 9 too. But omg she is too laid back and has no respect for anything.

Every day her room is covered in her stuff. Nail varnish or lip balm on the wall, pen all over her bedding, 1 million bits of paper strewn across the carpet. Now I don't mind a bit of mess (she is only 9) but her carelessness is being taken to the extreme.

Every single thing she got for christmas is either broken or lost (I spent over £300) as she cannot look after it. I found her ds behind the chest of drawers, her hudl thrown on the floor not in it's case, her most treasured horse stable broken and drawn on.

I found 100 pens, hair bands, food wrappers, paper etc all stuffed down the side of her mattress. I found two plates I didn't even know she took up there.

I have tried everything. Rewarding her with pocket money, punishing her, heart to heart chats with her. She just will not listen, she does not care. I can see her blocking what I'm saying out! It is driving me mental.

Her dad have her £5 pocket money last weekend as she had been doing really well at school. I asked her to keep it in her purse or put it in her money box. Can she find it anywhere? Can she hell!

I bought her a beautiful horse jumper that she really wanted big I said it Was on the proviso that she looks after her clothes by putting the dirty ones in the basket in her room so I can wash them. She couldn't do it. I found numerous items in her bed, in the toy box, in her brothers room! So I've returned the jumper.

I said a few weeks ago if she couldn't look after her stuff I would remove all of her toys til she could. Cue last night, going in there and there were broken christmas presents on the floor. Obviously I had to follow through with what I said.

I went to bed feeling awful but I honestly do not know how to get her to listen to me

I do think that would work for her, she talks a lot about pipits and marbles at school so I will try that. Thankyou.

I don't think punishment works on her, she seems to be the type that responds better to praise and competition? Hence why confiscating things don't bother her at all.

She is also the eldest of three and my two toddlers are hard bloody work so I can see why it may also be a least of my worries thing. I do need to be more consistent. My mum was extremely tough on me so I'm just a bit soft really but it's doing nobody any good.

I know I've posted this elsewhere, but again my first thought is dyspraxic!! My DD(11) is EXACTLY the same (although we are working on it well) and is also G&T, but dyslexic and dyspraxic - she simply doesn't register mess, lost items etc at all and it has been a big effort to improve. The point about the pen licence made me think, that's all. I know a very dyspraxic boy (now at uni) who was always in trouble at school because his handwriting, files, clothes and possessions were a complete mess. He was eventually diagnosed properly at 12 but he was very used to being blamed for it by then

I'm naturally very messy and have always struggled to keep the place tidy, but I hate clutter and mess as well so have had to get my arse into gear.

I'm not overly fussed about how tidy my girls rooms are, but I would like to enter the room without breaking my neck and don't want to work out what clothes are clean by the process of sniffing them.

I've given them loads of storage and we've worked out a system so they know where everything goes and a dirty laundry basket

My younger DD needs a bit of help, "tidy your room" means she'll look at a mess and not really know here to start, so I'll break it down into tasks, stuff like "put the barbies back in their box", "pick up the books and put them back on the shelf"

I just ask for the floor to be clear, school uniform hung up and dirty clothes in the wash basket

Anything I subsequently find on the floor is black bagged and put in the garage until they earn it back, although that tack was more successful when I started fining 10p from their pocket money for each item that went in the black bag

My younger DD has a habit of just pulling everything out of drawers and cupboards and leaving it all over the floor and it drives me up the wall - she's just pulled out the cupboard in the dining room looking for a game and left Wii and DS games strewn all over the floor

Untidy I could understand, but the destructiveness is rather worrying!

Being untidy is one thing.
Destroying and drawing on furniture and toys is another.

You are sending her mixed messages.
You are telling her that she isn't allowed pens in her room, that she can only use them at the table elsewhere in the house, but you have also given her storage for them in her room.

Oh I didn't mean pens, sorry. I meant arts and crafts bits (she is a very talented artist). She knows she isn't allowed pens upstairs, infact I refuse to buy them but she had some given to her at christmas.

I'm not a total clean freak at all but I'm organised. She never knows where anything is. She can't grasp time either, like she is never in a hurry for anything. She won't get dressed in the morning if I don't ask her to even though we had a star chart about it.

But she can't even put a DVD back in it's box after she has watched it let alone put stuff away after she has used it.

There are children who actually do this? My 11 year old dd is certainly not one of them...

I am reading this with interest hoping to get a few tips, I could have written the op this morning after finding hundreds of small ripped up pieces of paper, pens, books, shoes etc in DD1 (6) bed. I pay pocket money on a sliding scale for tidy rooms but it doesn't seem to work at the moment, finding felt pen all over her sheets this morning was the final straw.

Goats, I think you need to dig a bit with her to find out why she is behaving the way she is. It's always a struggle to get someone to change until you understand their motivations and intention. And don't assume you know what it is, you need to ask and listen carefully to the answers. Ultimately, you are looking for her to shift from her current mindset (which could for example be "life is too exciting to be wasting time putting things away") to a mindset that works for you both (eg "life is too exciting to faff around trying to find the things I care about and argue with my mum"). So my suggestion is, do a little digging, and then help her shift mindsets by seeing the downsides of her current choices, and then support her to make the behavioural switch with the right combination of sticks and carrots.

Do you think having so many material possessions is making her careless of them? A hudl and a ds even though she hardly uses them? It sounds like she just has to mention something - gloves eg? - to get it - you are teaching her that possessions materialise out of thin air and have Jo value

I think you are doing the right thing - I was very messy an careless when young and it's a very bad habit to have as an adult

But - I think you need to look at the wider picture - maybe give away or sell a lot of her stuff and just leave the basics she actually uses - and stop spending so much and giving her stuff she doesn't need

If she (in the words of my year 3 teacher) 'lives in her own world a lot of the time, but she is a happy little soul', then I can see how material punishments might be ineffective as she may have a very busy inner life.

I would not be as hung up on the 'destructiveness' as other posters. If you are 9 years old, have a world of ideas racing through your head, and you are perhaps a little clumsy too, then your imagination can take you down some ridiculous paths.

I'm not saying it's right or excusable, but I can sort of understand it.

Lasting well I expect her to do that if before she watched the DVD I specifically ask her to make sure it's back in it's box. She will be the upset one when it is broken or lost which is what will happen.

Her teacher describes her as just that jassy. She tells me she is a secret reader who is often caught reading books from her tray rather than doing what she's supposed to! She is always happy in her own little world, I wish I could tap into it sometime.

Dd1 (10) is EXACTLY like this. I filled a plastic bag with the sweet wrappers etc. I found underneath her mattress and showed it to her the other day, which did seem to appal her.

We have a no food in the bedroom rule now and a general tidy up every evening before she is allowed access to her iPod. It's a little better - but barely. Sigh.

If it helps, I turned out ok! Good degree, great career, nice husband, lovely kid and house that isn't a disgrace.

My husband packs up the kids toys and puts them into the car if they don't keep their room tidy. My two are 5&4 and their rooms are spotless, they know to put toys away lol

i can see how you'd get to that point.

have you looked at adhd as a possibility? i'm not trying to bless your daughter with a syndrome online from reading one thread - but i do wonder if there might be a reason behind her messiness - something she really can't manage without help.

Goats, I really, really would consider dyspraxia, given what you have said about grasping time. In addition to what I said above, dyspraxics have enormous difficulty with segmenting time: my DD learned to 'tell the time' easily enough, but in common with many dyspraxics, it is meaningless - if I say 'hurry up the bus leaves in ten minutes' she would wait until the bus left before considering time. The student I mentioned above STILL asks his tutor or his parent etc WHEN he has to leave his flat in order to get to an appointment on time. My DD was finally diagnosed after I had offloaded on a stranger at a party who was busy telling me how his daughter had been excluded from two schools before being assessed. Dyspraxia is not 'clumsy child' syndrome, but a processing/motor control disorder - children become (luckily) very adept at developing coping strategies to minimise the impact, but usually when they transfer to secondary school they deteriorate fast because their conduct and timekeeping is seen as immature. Hope this helps.

Oh god - not to be mean but why on earth does she need or have 100 pens? Not to mention all the other stuff.

Too much too young. She will never learn to appreciate the value of 'stuff'. Declutter and get rid. She has too much.

My DDs both had really messy rooms up until recently.

DD1 asked for new carpet for Christmas. We gutted her room, redecorated and recarpeted. We binned 7 bags and more of rubbish/outgrown stuff/charity shop stuff etc.

The difference has been amazing. For a start, having less stuff means she can keep what she does have tidy. She has boxes under her bed, a desk to do her homework on and a set of tall shelves for all her bits and pieces. She's nearly 13 and now keeps her room immaculate. But it's been a long slog!

DD2 is 9 and is a different matter. Her room is much smaller and is harder to keep clean, but she doesn't trash her stuff or her room. She also had a say in what colour to paint the walls and recently had a new high bed/desk/sofa thing. It's given her some more storage, and it's helped her become a BIT tidier.

She will still leave bits and pieces on her carpet, but doesn't break things or draw on her walls. If she did, I'd explode!

In your situation, I'd gut her room, get rid of everything that she's too old for/is broken/isn't played with and start from scratch with where everything goes so it's easy to put away. I'd remind her at bedtime every night to put dirty clothes in the laundry bin. I'd tell her to spend 5 mins tidying before pyjama time too. And I'd remove DS/Hudl/Pens etc and only allow them to be played with under supervision downstairs.

I agree with Captain it sounds as though your DD just has too much 'stuff'.

I was always very strict with my DS and he just never had that much volume of possessions - he is reasonably tidy and always has been. He is actually horrified at his friend's room - you literally cannot see the floor because he has so much 'stuff'. He left an expensive gadget with us once and I offered to return it immediately but was told 'no hurry, he's got another one' .

And why has she got a hudl and a ds if she rarely uses them? Even with vouchers etc those are very expensive gifts for a 9 year old I would like a hudl and I'm in my 50s .

I think twokidsintow's advice is great, why not take advantage of this to redecorate her room and sort out all the old stuff (with her) so that she has a slightly more grown up tween bedroom she can have her friends over with.

No drawing or defacing or accidental damage to walls/bedding ever (well, hard to prevent accidents but if you don't have pens or food in there, fairly easy).

Nice bedding, new painted walls etc

Tidy up before bed every day and a proper clean/hoover with you helping every week or two.

Mind you I was extremely messy as a teenager, just awful, and am still slightly slobbish underneath but I do try to keep the house nice enough now.

yanbu, but it may be your daughter just doesn't care about 'stuff'. When she is playing with it it exists, then it just falls out of her mind and her hand. In which case stop buying her 'stuff' if you're going to be angry about how she treats it, and instead buy her experiences for birthday and xmas- theatre trips, riding lesson, whatever floats her boat
My ds was like this, only started valuing stuff when he started buying things for himself, and even then leaves a trail of coats, books, bikes and mobiles wherever he goes, like many creative people.
I was like this too, a creative, bookish dreamy child with no concept of time, no ability to organise my stuff, and had my confidence really knocked by my mother's constant exasperation - she's a highly organised practical tidy person and thought I 'should' be the same. Ds needed support and strategies to get himself sufficiently organised to arrive at secondary school on time with homework etc, but like me it's never going to be second nature, that's not how our heads work.

Prune her belongings to a level she can handle and then require a weekly tidy-up, which she may well need support with. ds was mid teens before he could make decisions about what to keep where in his room, let alone actually put it there.
It's just an aspect to her personality which must be really hard to understand if you are a tidy type. I think organising possessions is a set of skills which some personality types are late developing/ find difficult- sort of administrative dyslexia, iyswim?