to believe, and be heartbroken by Woody Allens step-daughters testimony

[fromparistoberlin]

kristof.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/02/01/an-open-letter-from-dylan-farrow/

I read this last night and it just about broke my heart

I believe her, and I am just so saddened by it

How the hell did he not get prosecuted

brave brave girl, and I feel awful as I have watched and enkoyed his films, even knowing of this murky tale in the background

Mia ‘sounds very bitter’? Yes, she sent Allen a voodoo valentine after they split up.

I think Mia has done her daughter an horrendous disservice right from the start when she refused to persue charges and take a lie detector test to now when - in my opinion - she's orchestrated this campaign against Allen, a transparent one that, rightly or wrongly, doesn't paint Dylan in too good a light. Kristof, who published the letter in his blog, is a close friend and apparently the Vanity Fair writer is a friend, too. Her son recently took up a high-profile media gig and voting for the Oscars is taking place right now - too much of a coincidence. What the hell kind of message does it send to her daughter and abuse victims when Mia sides with a confessed rapist (Polanski)? I'd also be interested to know how often and when Mia's brother visited the family home but she's kept quiet about him.

I think that Dylan believes she was abused but also that Mia was fully capable of brainwashing and coaching members of her family.

Yes, people reporting rape should be allowed to tell their account in a judgement free environment - unless their assailant is WA? Do you think Dylan has been given a judgement free environment?

How about WA not looking credible because:

i) in his late 50s he started an affair with a vulnerable teenager
ii) who happened to be the daughter of his partner of 10 years standing
iii) and was his children's sister
iv) in 1993 ; The judge concluded that Allen demonstrated no parenting skills and was “self-absorbed, untrustworthy, and insensitive.” Allen’s trial strategy, he concluded, had been “to separate his children from their brothers and sisters; to turn the children against their mother.” He found “no credible evidence” to support Allen’s contention “that Ms. Farrow coached Dylan or that Ms. Farrow acted upon a desire for revenge against him for seducing Soon-Yi.”

Maybe this is why people feel able to say to Dylan we believe you?

"Woody running off with his then girlfriends adult daughter wasn't the nicest thing to do but it doesn't make him a paedophile"

Um....

She was only 18 or 19 which means he'd spent her childhood grooming her. You don't suddenly realise you're in love with the child you've raised since she was 9.

Also you say there would be a queue of other victims. Well maybe there are but as with JS, afraid to come forward as they know they won't be believed. Look what usually happens to women who say men abused them - they're vilified and designated mentalists. Good blog post about that here:

bellejar.ca/2014/02/03/how-to-undermine-a-rape-victim-101/

thenewinquiry.com/blogs/zunguzungu/woody-allens-good-name/This is one of the best things I've seen on this.

oops, screwed that up

NB for anyone who might be unsure, the Onion article is a spoof.

That last link is fantastically cogent and well-written Basil.

I posted this on the other thread but I think it's a good counter point to the daily beast article. www.slate.com/articles/life/culturebox/2014/02/woody_allen_s_biggest_defender_robert_weide_s_attack_on_mia_farrow_and_her.html

Irrelevent, of course it's a spoof, Woody Allen would never say that about his films, he is hypercritical of them.

So he apparently displays no parenting skills and has little involvement with his children growing up (has to be encouraged to spend time with them) but then is also spending Soon Yi's childhood grooming her? So many contradictions on this thread. I'm still not going to jump in with an appealing soundbite irl to a MN campaign without knowing all the facts. My default position is not that someone is guilty as soon as they have been accused.

Well what else would you call it bumbley?

What is the usual term for being a trusted, loved, nurturing adult in a child's life and then as soon as that child has grown up, to pursue a sexual relationship with them?

baby Sadly it really isn't uncommon for siblings to disbelieve or change their minds in respect of abuse.

bumble So imagine how it felt to Soon Yi that this adult who was in life but never paid her much attention or showed any interest in her suddenly turns on the charm?

My default position is to believe a woman when she makes a courageous stand about the effect being abused has had on her.

bumbley your default position sets up a negative, implying that those arguing against you have the default position that you say you don't have.

Which is a misrepresentation of their default position.

AskBasil,

"What is the usual term for being a trusted, loved, nurturing adult in a child's life"

Earlier posters have said that he had little or no involvement with his children and had to be encouraged to spend time with them. According to mothershipG the judge concluded that he displayed no parenting skills. So which he? Trusted, loving, loved and nurturing or self-absorbed with no parenting skills? I, personally, don't know which he is. I'm just pointing out the contradictions on this thread alone and wondering how anyone thinks they are in a position to make a judgement.

I'm not arguing with anyone. I am stating my position which is that I will not automatically assume that someone is guilty simply because they have been accused of something.

"Well what else would you call it bumbley?"

It's a completely unproven allegation, with no evidence whatsoever to back it up, from a mixed up woman from a completely dysfunctional family background, made at an "interesting" time.

In other words, for so many on MN, the absolutely believable truth.

Lazyjaney - I think she was referring to her use of the word 'grooming' in relation to Soon Yi rather than the allegation of abuse.

Probably the most level-headed post I've read about this on here all this week, Lazyjaney.

WA taking up with the step daughter he co-parented (whether effectively or not) is not an unproven allegation. Soon-Yi was 19 when she moved in with him.

What normal man does that? Seriously?

It doesn't actually matter if he was a good father or a bad one - he was a father figure to her. What is it usually called when a man who has functioned in that role, develops his role into her sexual partner?

People pretending that what WA did with SY was OK, are really on the side of abusers.

It really isn't OK to fuck the child to whom you've acted in an adult mentoring role. I wouldn't even fuck one of my kid's friends, let alone one a child I'd functioned in a parenting role with.

If he'd met her years later when she was 35 and then got together with her, then it would be slightly weird but OK I guess. But at 19 just as she was leaving childhood behind? No, no normal person thinks that's OK and if you do, you need to have a word with yourself.

Even if WA barely spoke two words to Soon Yi - she was his partner's child. She was the sister of his children.

"People pretending that what WA did with SY was OK, are really on the side of abusers. "

I'm not sure why people keep bringing up the relationship with Soon-Yi as some sort of confirmation that he must have been guilty of abusing Dylan.

Of course it's not confirmation.

It is however, a character reference.

I believe her.

When the story about him & soon-yi came out he should have been shunned & career over time.

You don't fuck your teenage step-kids when you're an old geezer. When you've been a parental figure to them since age 9. Creepy as fuck, dangerous too.

People pretending that what WA did with SY was OK, are really on the side of abusers

What a despicable statement. I have not read or heard a single person say that what WA did with SY was 'ok' but in any case it is morally wrong and an insult to abuse victims to equate that relationship with child abuse.

In what way is it an insult to child abuse victims?

You realise that is a silencing statement don't you. And no, no-one has said outright that it was OK, but they have been implying that there is nothing whatsoever wrong with an adult who initiates a sexual relationship with a very young person with whom they have had a pre-existing adult to child relationship. No decent person would pretend that there is nothing wrong with that. There is. There really is.