to believe, and be heartbroken by Woody Allens step-daughters testimony

[fromparistoberlin]

kristof.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/02/01/an-open-letter-from-dylan-farrow/

I read this last night and it just about broke my heart

I believe her, and I am just so saddened by it

How the hell did he not get prosecuted

brave brave girl, and I feel awful as I have watched and enkoyed his films, even knowing of this murky tale in the background

That Vanity Fair article was very interesting. The one thing that stands out for me is how on earth Allen got sanctioned to adopt when he had such dysfunctional relationships with his own children, to the extent that he was only allowed supervised access to one of them, and that stopped fairly quickly too. It makes me very very glad that in the UK so much more care is taken.

That said the arrangements for Mia to rescue so many of her adopted children (and I use the term rescue carefully as that very much seems her motivation) look very odd too, and I can't help but wonder how much support was provided for what on the face of it would have been very troubled children given their previous experiences.

Soon-Yi was apparently abused before adoption at 7 and would have been very very vulnerable, so especially wrong to have made any sort of sexual advances to her whether he appeared as a father figure or not. That the relationship has lasted doesn't necessarily make it a good one, although I hope that she is happy of course.

The accusations from the alleged sexual abuse were not disproved, it was just decided that as Dylan might not make a good witness the prosecution might not be successful and once her mother knew that Allen would not be able to have contact with her again she didn't pursue it. That doesn't seem an incredibly awful decision by a parent, especially given the prevailing opinion at the time and the investigations that Dylan had already had to go through. That may or may not have been the right decision to make but the whole thing looks looks terribly murky, and my heart goes out to Dylan. Her story seems all too familiar.

I was amazed at his further ability to adopt nooka. It seems a very odd decision on behalf of adoption services!

Adoption services in the US run much faster / easier when money is involved, look at all the celebrities who have adopted. I doubt they've waited years on a list ....

There was not enough evidence at the time for him to be charged, let alone convicted. Enough of the speculation and cries of 'Paedo', already!

No. But there was enough concern for his access to be restricted/supervised only. That wouldn't look great for an adoption application surely.

US adoption services run much faster anyway.

for anyone.

I believe her.

The fact that Woody Allen had an affair with his partner's own daughter gives you an insight into his mentality. As I understood it, the daughter had grown up in a household where he was very much a father figure. Sick.

IIRC, it came out in the 80s where this sort of thing was seen as not quite beyond the pale and merely brushed over ( think Sam Fox, Mandy Smith etc)

I think a lot of assumptions are being made.

I believe her. I couldnt understand at the time why nothing was done. I stopped watching all his films because of it.

Later I guessed it was because he was too powerful that that was why nothing much was done.

There. The assumption that nothing happened because he was too powerful. Not possibly because he was innocent or that the event in question never happened.

I wish I didn't because I actually love some of Allen's earlier films, but I do believe her.

I was always a bit creeped out by Manhattan where he has a very young, beautiful girlfriend.

Oh well, in that case, let's hope you never see Lolita or your image of Jeremy Irons will be destroyed FOREVER!!

It was a film. Why does it automatically have to mirror real life or be an outlet for his desires?

It doesn't automatically have to, and of course many films don't.

It's just that suspicion does start to be raised when a middle-aged director casts himself as a guy who has an incredibly beautiful, and I think (in NY at the time) actually illegally young girlfriend, and then a woman who was his illegally young girlfriend claims it is based on their relationship.

OK, maybe she's making it all up too, that's another thing we can't know for certain.

Oh and the same director then has an affair with his partner's 19/21 yo daughter who he has been in a stepdad role to since she was a child. After taking porno pictures of her while still in a relationship with her mum.

OK, OK, he wasn't legally her stepdad, he didn't live with her. He was still that person - her mother's partner. It's still odd. It still adds to the pile of things that make him look distinctly dodgy.

None of this means he is guilty, but it is suspicious. You are allowed to think someone's behaviour is inappropriate and suspect without that meaning you are sure he did a particular thing he is accused of. However, when someone says he did that thing, his previous form affects whether or not you believe them. Believing them doesn't mean you're judge and jury. It means you believe them, which you are free to do.

Saville was never tried and convicted either. But if a woman claims he abused her as a child, do we believe her? Yes, now, generally, we do. Because looking at him and what we know about him, it seems reasonable.

It is also the case that many, many people have got away with sexual abuse because of their position of power and/or money. So it's not an outlandish possibility.

If he will marry, have sex with his own adopted daughter she vomits on her floor I can't see he is a man who knows sexual or moral boundires when it comes to his children.

Sadoldbag Soon-Yi was not Allen's adopted daughter, she was the adopted daughter of Andre Previn (Please tell me other people still want to call him Andrew Preview). I am not debating that this is not a bit dubious, morally (and is illegal in some states) but I am saying it does not automatically mean that he is guilty of abusing another child.

QueenThora yes, Savile is a fine example of someone who got away with it and I'm sure there are many more. And yes, some of his actions may appear suspect but my point all along has been that some people are far to quick to jump straight to the conclusion that he is guilty, followed shortly by the shouts of 'Paedophile' and the call for all his films to be boycotted and that he deserves nothing less than an eternity in the burning fires of Hades!

Yes, it's suspect that he took up with his partner's adopted daughter but a quick glance at Jeremy Kyle, for example, shows that it's not unheard of.

There are many versions of many events that went on during the whole debacle that was/is the Farrow/Sinatra/Previn/Allen/Soon-Yi family upbringing and I'll wager that most reports are highly inaccurate and mostly exaggerated.

I DON'T believe her, because I took the time to read the arguments of the other side:

thebea.st/1ckev98

(but if you prefer to condemn people based on your irrational feelings it's fine, provided you don't work as a judge).

Slightly O/T

But, does anyone know if Soon-Yi sees Mia Farrow or Andre Previn anymore? I'm just curious.

By all accounts, Soon-Yi is estranged from Farrow (who said in 2006 that Soon Yi was both 'estranged and strange) and as far as Previn is concerned, she doesn't exist.

Soon Yi and Mia Farrow have no contact but don't know about Andre Previn.

Soon Yi sees Moses (but he doesn't see Mia)

I don't believe the story. I think Allen's relationship with Soon Yi was weird and inappropriate but I think all the child abuse stuff was dreamt up by an (understandably) very bitter, twisted Farrow.

According to Mia Farrow's memoir, WA had little to do with her children with Andre Previn. She said she encouraged him to spend time with Soon-Yi, and per MF's account Soon-Yi was over 18 at that time.

Not that it makes it ok, but it's not exactly fair to say he was a father figure to her, either.

He had an affair with, then married his children's sister, totally wrong and inappropriate. As Dylan's brother put it "Happy father's day, or as we say in this family, happy brother-in-law's day." That sums it up pretty well I think. "The heart wants what the heart wants" WA said to justify it, so obviously that makes it ok.

Let's face it Soon Yi must have had a very damaged set of boundaries and ideas about appropriate relationships with adults due to her formative years. He was a somewhat distant adult figure in her young life who suddenly starts paying her lots of attention. She is about 16/17 he's in his 50's. This dynamic is so unhealthy I don't know how anyone can condone it. Even a judge has said that he effectively isolated her from her family, another massive red flag.

Given all this I do not find it a stretch to believe that he would also abuse his own child and don't understand why anyone would.

An interesting quote from WA here, from an article in 1976

"I'm open-minded about sex. I'm not above reproach; if anything, I'm below reproach. I mean, if I was caught in a love nest with 15 12-year-old girls tomorrow, people would think, yeah, I always knew that about him." Allen pauses. "Nothing I could come up with would surprise anyone," he ventures helplessly. "I admit to it all."

Who says that? I mean, what 40 year old man in their right mind wouldn't think twice about saying that?

Agree with those saying that we don't know all the facts. I am not willing to accuse/condemn someone without knowing all the facts. I will not say 'I believe you' simply because someone has made an accusation of abuse.

Investigators at the time believed that she wasn't abused but coached by her mother. A former nanny, Monica Thompson swore in a deposition to Allen's attorneys that she was pressured by Farrow to support the molestation charges, and the pressure led her to resign her position.

Dylan's brother Moses claims that his mother demonised Allen to her children, drummed it into them to hate him and exploited Dylan in revenge for Woody leaving her for Soon-Yi.

Dylan obviously believes it happened, the question is whether her memories are accurate or were falsely implanted. Dylan was abused, either sexually by her father or mentally by a mother, we can judge according to where we believe the evidence suggests the truth more likely to lie but there's no way of knowing for sure.

Woody running off with his then girlfriends adult daughter wasn't the nicest thing to do but it doesn't make him a paedophile, it's relevant only in that it's enough to infuriate some people to the point where they may be inclined to do anything for revenge.

I think it more likely that he's innocent. Paedophiles don't just abuse one child, Allen's 78 now, if the allegations were true, there'd be victims lining up to tell their story as there were in the Saville and similar cases. He'd have a history going back fifty or sixty years. Yet not a peep. That silence speaks volumes.

I believe her.