To ask if you think that Knox is guilty?

[superstarheartbreaker]

I have no idea but it seems that her kissing her boyfriend at the time was seen as suspicious whereas I don't think that this is suspicious at all. DNA is...kissing one's lover.no. It's not even that inappropriate to kiss ones lover in the face of tragedy.
Didn't she do cartwheels though?

The first conviction was appealed on technicalities, this isn't the same as being found innocent.

I think she did do it.
I also think she is very manipulative and is turning on the wounded charm, which she hopes will stop her being extradited - which the Americans seem very susceptible to ( Bill Clintion anyone?)
Every time I see her on TV I just get a really creepy feeling about her and I'm not usually wrong about these things.
Luckily my Spidey sense isn't actually enough to convict anyone of murder but she has been through a trial twice with the same verdict and dismissing the Italian legal system just isn't justifiable.
The Americans are very good at demanding anyone who they want is extradited so I hope they fully cooperate with the Italians to send AN back to Italy to serve her sentence.

I'm going to agree with rainraingoawayANDNEVERCOMEBACK and say that Knox has given many interviews and written a book and IMO, does not come across as a young woman whose friend was utterly, brutally murdered and she and her boyfriend were involved even circumstantially. My gut feeling on this is irrelevant but together with the other 'evidence' I think they, together, are guilty in some capacity even if they did not actually inflict the injuries. Accessories, I guess I'm saying. They know more than they're letting on and Knox has convinced herself that she is innocent. What does the guy who was convicted and in prison say of Know and RS ?

As for extradition, the US seem to have one rule for them and one for everyone else in this matter (as with a lot of things).

I don't think we will ever know, for sure.

Italy is a notoriously racist country. The fact that they have found a black African guilty yet still chance these two suggests to me that actually the evidence is weighted heavily towards their guilt. Come on! Two young attractive people. Everyone wants to believe they are innocent. Whereas a black African man is guilty just by his race as far as they are concerned.

yes she has written a book and given interviews, she is innocent (or claims to be) and has huge legal fees to pay

strange how the word manipulative has always been used in relation to Knox but not Sollecito

i think she comes across as quite unemotional at times, that is hardly what i would describe as being manipulative had she been more emotional, crying for her friend and not fighting her corner, putting herself first in other words if she had shut up maybe she would have got more support

But the reason she is in the US in the first place is because the Italian justice system released her. The system seems completely bizarre to me, does this bouncing in and out of prison for the same crime happen a lot in Italy?

It's all very well for Italy to say they want the murderer in prison, but they had her in prison and let her go because the 2nd court found her not guilty.

Is it best two of three? If the trials had been done in a different order, could she have now just been released? There didn't seem to be anything new in this trial.

No you're not unreasonable.

Of course we can't know but the only "evidence" they have against either of them is that they were acting "suspiciously" after the event by kissing not being sufficiently upset.

Knox's DNA was on the knife but DNA covers a great deal and she did share a flat with Meredith. On the other hand Rudy Guede's bloody handprint was underneath the pillow, his "DNA" was inside her body, his handprint was in the blood and his DNA was on the knife. He's admitted being there on the night (though has now changed his story) and has admitted to several of his fellow inmates that Knox & Sollecito were not present and that HE committed the murder.

Furthermore, Knox & Sollecito have never tried to blame each other but have stuck to more or less identical stories. Reasonable doubt? I think so!

...actually this ought never to have returned to court as there is not one piece of new evidence. It would not have happened here.

I don't think she did it. There is nothing to prove beyond doubt that she did.

I find it quite bizzare the way people keep on saying that Meredith is being forgotten in this whole thing. She isn't forgotten at all, and this case isn't about Meredith as a person or who she was. She was just in the wrong place at the wrong time, there are no questions to be answered surrounding her life or her actions. This is about her death, and the subsequent questions surrounding other people.

I also don't think that AKs reactions after the event are at all relevant. I can remember reacting quite strangely upon hearing about the death of a friend when I was a teenager. I was quite streetwise, had been bereaved more than once before, but to anyone looking at my immediate reaction, it could easily have looked like I didn't care. Of course I did care, very much so, but people do react weirdly to shocking things sometimes. I'm embarrassed about it looking back, but it doesn't make me murderer and AKs reactions don't make her a murderer either.

Public opinion was against AK because she was found guilty of slandering Lumumba, even though she later retracted her statement. Additionally RG opted for a reduced sentence by pleading guilty but in such a way that implicated AK and RS. For this to have been justice, the three of them should have been tried together if it was the prosecution's case that they conspired together.

Exactly WooWoo - doing a cartwheel would be as odd for a murderer as for a bereaved flatmate, it's not evidence one way or the other.

Things like whether Meredith locked her door - my understanding is they'd only shared a house for a couple if months and were housemates rather than mates - very possible to have made a mistake on that.

You have up to 3 stages in the same process until it gets to cassazione Giraffe. The accused can apply to the appeal court and also the cassazione court which is the highest court in Italy. Which will be the next stage. The original conviction has been upheld, it was the appeal stage that was overturned. It wasn't the case when they were released that the process had reached an end as the prosecution then had their right to appeal.the Italian system has a lot of faults notably the slowness of it but I personally think the 3 stage process with the various appeal options has a lot of merits.
Lean towards guilt here. One thing I don't get is why in this case people draw conclusions based on what seems plausible by their standards. Apart from the odd exception such as a situation where you fear for your or your loved ones lives I would imagine most people don't find the motivation or thought process behind the act of murder plausible or comprehensible? Horrible, impossible to fathom situations still happen though. So why do we find this one so hard to comprehend as having potentially happened?

Just to clear up a few misconceptions about the Italian system.

All trials are basically held in 3 parts. No-one technically has to go to prison until found guilty at the 3rd level of trial (Cassazione). They will be sent to prison possibly, after the 1st or 2nd level, if there is a fear they will re-offend or flee. Hence, in another well-known case of a mother who killed her child, she didn't go to prison at all until the 3rd level, despite being found guilty at all 3 stages. She lived, with her family, made numerous TV appearances and gave birth to another child, before eventually going to prison.

At AK/RS first stage trial, they were found guilty and imprisoned. At the 2nd stage (appeal) they were found innocent, and released. This was later ruled as a mistrial. The trial which finished on Thursday was the appeal court trial re-done. They will now go to the 3rd level (Cassazione). If found guilty at that stage, then prison will be the outcome and talk will then begin officially about extradition etc.

I think they were both too stoned to remember, but have convinced themselves in their minds of their innocence. The evidence certainly seems to point towards more than one person being involved. From the link above it seems that there is more forensic evidence implicating both of the them than just the bra clasp/knife. Knox's behaviour/words immediately following the discovery of Meredith certainly came across as insensitive to the point of sociopathic, but is equally bizarre if she had been involved but maybe she was lapping up the drama and attention of it all. Meredith's family have presumably seen all the evidence and seem convinced of their guilt.

Xposted with Gio' (and a phone call in between!)

I'm sick of people saying how attractive and beautiful she is. She's not, Meredith was beautiful but quite honestly Amanda you wouldnt give a second glance at if you passed her in the street.

She's a strange one though, her behaviour was odd and insensitive. Doing cartwheels at the police station anyone?.....

I couldn't sleep last night so I read up a bit about it. There is evidence that Rudy was friends with them. He often went to the cottage they loved in. A lot of what I read was bias so difficult to decipher but there is a club owner called Patrick who Knox tried to set up for the murder . He described her as cold and insanely jealous of Meredith and was a terrible flirt and had form for being inappropriate with men whilst working and it appeared Meredith had natural charm and Amanda was jealous .. I'm still unsure of ho killed her though.

....doesn't make her guilty

You explained it better than me sangria

If they'd have done it as the police describe, on a drug fuelled whim, there would be evidence, confessions and bargains by now. Let's not forget ak & s had known each other only a week, hardly new Rudy at all, and had no messages sent between each other on their phones in anyway planning the situation. Plus no DNA evidence which will stand up in court, or CCTV disputing their allibies. I find this all very hard to believe, unless of course they are innocent of the murder. What kicks the most is the halved sentence Rudy got to indicate the other two! Even in that he has admitted to being part of a sex game, just that he thinks the pair murdered her whilst he was on the toilet

People don't like knox's manner and have based their conclusions on that, rather than the evidence. There is a significant reasonable doubt of her guilt id say.

• hasn't admitted

Rudy could be released from prison this year. Meredith's poor family must be livid about that. I really feel for them.

I don't believe AK or RS are guilty.

there were footprints the size of AK's in the bathroom with Meredith's blood

No there weren't. There was one bloody footprint said by the prosecution to be that of Sollecito. Many forensic experts disagree with the attribution of the footprint in the bathroom and believe, on the basis of its dimensions, that it is actually Guede's footprint.

Similarly there eight bloody footprints in Meredith's room. The prosecution sought to attribute one footprint to Sollecito and another to Knox. The other six are undisputed - they are Guede. However the tread pattern on all the footprints, including the two the prosecution seek to attribute to Knox and Sollecito, is identical and matches Guede's shoes.

Not the same but I lived in Perugia for 3 years and know one of Patrtick Lamumba's former teachers. He didn't think Patrick had been involved, and hre wasn't. Yet Amanda blamed him. I think she knows more than she says she does.
I also know how useless the police can be...

Hk, my understanding is that AK "blamed" PL after she'd been interviewed for hours on end with no sleep and in Italian, after the police had suggested his name to her.

She has been found guilty of and punished for naming him.