To want to offer up to all the fat shamers...

[WichitaLineman]

... On mumsnet who peddle the old "fat people are lazy and lack will -power" or proffer their simplistic formula of "eat less, move more" an incredibly succinct description of food addiction by Marcus Brigstocke. I will admit that that sentence isn't quite so succinct

"Eating is different [from drug addiction]; it's dirty, it's horrible - you do it on your own and you wear it. [With] alcohol and drugs, you have moments of sobriety, [but] you don't stop being fat. You wear it; everyone can see it - it is a brand… an overcoat of shame for everyone to see.

"You despise yourself, you make promises to yourself, you say 'I had a bad day, that was bad but that means this is baseline and I can start', then you go and break those promises and do it again, and worse.

"Eating disorders are more pervasive and subtle [than alcohol and drugs] and availability and acceptability are much higher... the ”high“ comes from the totally full-up feeling ”It is an anaesthetic. You lie like a python digesting what you have, it slows your brain down and you are physically inert. Numb and dull, that is the feeling you get."

Whilst I am not saying that every obese person is a compulsive overeater, I wold wager that most are, including myself. This has resonated with me and is the best description I have read of the self-loathing involved in compulsive overeating. It is a faulty mechanism to deal with emotional pain and the fat shamers can't cause any more shame than we already feel for ourselves.

Whilst there are many people on mn who are understanding, I am always appalled by those who aren't. Please think on this when those threads come up. Thank you.

Oooh, I would love a section for eating disorders/disordered eating. I spent years on ED message boards before MN but now I feel way too old for them - they're all teens/young twenties encouraging each other to be sick. Very sad and not healthy places to be.

Yup - I'd really appreciate a MN space for discussion. I was aware it could easily turn unhelpful though? I don't know how you'd keep it recovery focused.

I'd love for sleepwhenidie to help out on the threads ;)

I think it would naturally stay healthier than anything currently out there on the web because if we're on mumsnet at all the chances are we're parents and out of our teens.

In this stage of life priorities naturally shift to coping with and managing the disorder rather than glorifying and intensifying it. I think.

MN Towers said they were 'checking a few things out' - but it should go ahead . I'd hope manic would be right, I can't imagine it turning into a space where anything other than recovery/self help would be encouraged...save for the inevitable trolls that would be shouted down/reported?

When I was overweight I had a mental 'brake' that made me feel disgusted with myself every time I hit 15 stone (I'm 5'9" so that's 3 stone over a healthy BMI). So the pattern would go that I'd gradually put on weight - not by gorging myself but by eating a little too much continuously. I'd feel pretty sick as the scales crept up but then one day they'd hit the magic 15 stone and I'd find the will to cut back for a while. Lose a stone or sometimes nearly 2 but never actually hit a healthy weight, just kid myself that I was going to! Then I was happy and could relax back into my old habits, thinking I didn't have to worry about my weight for a while. Never really connecting the cake, chocolate or wine that was going down my neck with the extra inches creeping on round my waist and thighs.
Isn't that the real problem? My tactics now are not to buy fattening stuff - I just don't have it in the house. If I'm hungry a munch fruit or raw carrots. In fact my colleagues remark on the fact that I'm always eating!! I do still binge sometimes but it's a rare event and it's what you do most of the time that counts. I've stopped being a victim of food - I do think it's as tough as being an alcoholic because as others have said you have to eat. But you can cut out the crap and eat a lot every day and still stay slim. Just like an alcoholic you need to come to that realisation that you are the only person who can do it - you can change your life forever! Going on a diet isn't the answer, you need to make sustainable changes to your whole lifestyle.

Good post, FortyPlus. I agree completely.

Overeating is not such a problem if you are eating healthy foods.

Overeating crap which I assume most are doing is a major problem.

Those of you that subscribe to the eating as an addiction theory.

Is it the overeating you are addicted to or is it the eating of unhealthy foods that satisfies the desire or is it both?

I really can't imagine an ED board on MN ending up glorifying it. Maybe they'd put a bit in the disclaimer along the top like they do in other boards - something like Any links to pro-Ana websites will be deleted etc.

For me I don't think I'm addicted to overeating but I am definitely a sugar addict. I had a wake up call recently where I was actually feeling anxious and stressed because I really wanted something sweet and there wasn't anything in. Ridiculous and embarrassing. It has instigated a change though and I'm determined not to forget why.

I speak from experience. I'm 5'3" and my adult weight has ranged from 8 stone to 13 stone. Since I had my children I've struggled to keep below 9 stone and I'm now making progress in losing the 10lb or so a late holiday followed by Christmas resulted in me putting back on.

Sometimes I just want to eat any old rubbish, if its in the cupboard I'm going to eat it. I do however see this as weakness, and don't make excuses for myself or expect anyone else to. I look pretty dreadful when I'm fat, with rolls of fat over the top of my jeans and a double chin. If I was single |I wouldn't expect anyone to fancy me when I look such a mess and I wouldn't expect to be on top of a list of people if I applied for a new job. My doctor isn't happy if I weight that much, there are risks of high blood pressure, diabetes and joint problems in later life.

I like being 9 stone or less, and when I'm back there in 6 weeks time
wearing my size 10 jeans I'll be proud and happy. I'll also be judgemental of anyone I see who is obese. It doesn't look nice, it makes you hot and sweaty and exhausted. I don't like to see this lack of self control dressed up as an addiction, but the difference is I can take it as valid when the criticism comes my way, as well as dish it out.

This is why I asked the question. I think the addiction comes from craving sugar and fat, the more you eat the more you want. You feel the high and feel happy and then the low comes and so the cycle starts.

I definitely agree my main issue is willpower - lack of it. I choose the wrong things because I like them (I do love a lot of the 'right' foods too) and think 'fuck it'.

I reached my rock bottom recently though and am changing things gradually. I need to, my BMI is about 41 and I have a chronic illness/disability that isn't caused specifically by obesity, but it certainly isn't helped by it.

Good for you Frugalfuzzpig. Sorry to hear you have a chronic illness.

I find the more time I spend at home the more I feel fed up and then its tempting to eat.

Everyone has their breaking point when they feel enough is enough and take drastic measures (often when doctors are involved)

I think its easier to take baby steps. Get out in the fresh air and go for a walk and stop buying junk food are obvious steps but it will give you a natural high and raise those endorphin's without having to have food.

Its the wrong foods that kill people not eating too much.

Thanks slick :) and yes to the staying at home thing. Since getting ill (first bad episode was summer 2012) I've been bordering on housebound and so bored that food became more important to me than it should in the drive to cheer myself up. At a time when, obviously, I was less active than before. Needless to say I've put on a lot more weight since then.

I was really interested to read (earlier on this thread I think) that fluctuating weight due to yoyo dieting is even worse than staying at the same heavy weight. I don't think I caught why though, I'd be interested to know the reason.

I've never really gone on any proper/fad diet (knew I wouldn't have the willpower) and I'm not starting now, just trying to make small changes which so far are going well. I feel positive rather than like I'm depriving myself.

The exercise is much more difficult to fix though, sadly. But even starting to do a bit more housework and cooking at home (rather than DH doing all of it) is an improvement.

I dont think diets work, it just makes you think about food more than usual.
I found a good site the other day its called Great British Chefs there are loads of good recipes on there. I found that if I planned the food for the day, walked to the shops, brought and cooked the food stopped me craving junk.
Also you learn so I felt it made me positive therefor much happier.
The brain is an amazing instrument you can make it do anything you want once you decide to do it.
I hope you feel better soon

Higgle you sound delightful. Hope I don't bump into you. Have you even read the thread?!

And yes, to counter an earlier point those with eating disorders are quite capable of binge eating on healthy food. It can be anything in the house.

I've eaten at macdonalds once in about 10 years, don't like take away, cook from scratch, don't have ready meals, and that's not unusual in the eating disorders group I attend.

However don't let that get in the way of people's prejudices that we're just lazy/ don't know how to eat/ live off of junk food.

As for the eating disorders thread - I didn't mean glorifying it as such, I just know at our eating disorder gorup we have rules such as not talking about the food (!) but rather focusing on issues such as self-esteem, recovery process, and more the mental health issues. The whole "it's not about the food" thing, as that can sidetrack recovery into obsessiveness about food. On the other hand when your idea of healthy is so wrongly calibrated knowing what is sensible to eat is helpful...

Eating truck loads of lettuce and celery will not make you put on weight

Yes, of course I've read the thread. I'm a binge eater with a weight problem too. I just don't make excuses for myself. Obese people are like drug addicts, always saying they like themselves as they are, moaning about prejudice etc. etc. saying they can't change. Sorry, you can, it just required steel will and determination. There are times when I don't have it and if someone in a bus queue looks at me in disgust then I'm afraid I deserve it.

Do "normal" people just eat celery and lettuce all day? Or rather a balanced healthy diet of proteins/carbs(possibly)/ veg/fruit?

You can eat "real" normal food in excess if you have a binge eating disorder. Whether that's excess organic meat/home grown potatoes/organic veg or fruit and natural yoghurt.

It's not nec. McDonalds and takeaways. It's to do with the mental health issues as much as anything else.

I'd go back to being anorexic any day, much due to the difference in social acceptance (being overweight = worth less than a skinny person)

god that touched a cord with me - I get very cross with myself when I miss the days I could go without food - I used to get the most awful acid stomach and I'd be so proud - now I am overweight (1.5 stone) and I hate how much it effects my self esteem - I am very fit and active and I find myself wishing I had that level if discipline again - which is perverted :(

The thing I find saddest on this thread is people who proclaim to understand being obese then being so critical of people who are obese.

Anyone who has truly battled with their weight would surely have more empathy towards the challeneges other people face?

Yup sirzy :(

Maybe we could compile a list of the common "helpful phrases" and some combacks just to save typing them out over and over again?

When I was ill with my eating disorder, a helpful, friendly board would have been a real comfort. Like the MH board often is to me now.

A glossary of helpful phrases would be good, as would notification from HQ saying no links to pro-ana stuff allowed.

I agree profondo :) Although I actually meant in that case the rubish that gets trotted out.

"Just eat less, move more"
"its just lack of willpower"
"stop eating crap/macdonalds/etc"
"don't they know they look awful/are unhealthy"
"just tell them they're fat/look awful/need to eat better"

Can't think of more at the moment, but you could go through the thread and find lots of examples of the type of thing the OP was talking about trying to combat!