aibu to feel slightly on edge when I come across women in the full black burka?

[caroleharolde]

I just always feel slightly threatened, I know the vast majority of Muslims are lovely nonviolent people but.just this sight always unnerve me. Be honest, who hadn't felt a bit uncomfortable when passing by a huddle of the burqa wearers? Not trying to be racist, I'd feel the same if it were Christians or Jews or any other religion wearing it.

TrueToYou spot on.

Although it's taken us 22 pages to get here, surely the key issue here is choice??

Some prefer to avoid folk whose clothes they feel hinder communication - fair enough, that's their choice

Some muslim ladies wear purely western clothes and honour their faith with modest behaviour, while others prefer the hijab/headscarf with perhaps trousers or a long skirt to cover their legs - again, their own decision

A very few may genuinely feel that modesty requires wearing the full niqab or even a burka. Admittedly I personally dislike the (possible) repression implied, but if they've honestly chosen this themselves I respect that too - though I do support a ban in places where facial recognition is crucial (courts, immigration counters, etc.)

Unfortunately, sometimes the niqab/burka isn't the woman's choice but is imposed through community/family pressure, husband's demands, abuse or worse. For me, THAT is when it becomes unacceptable - and if that's thought unreasonable then I'll gladly be considered guilty

of course the men don't wear them because the men make the rules.

that's the same in all religions.

if men were suddenly required to cover up their whole body and fave in a heavy black curtain suddenly it wouldn't be a requirement.

if men could get pregnant the catholic church would be selling condoms to the third world to make a buck.

it's complete and utter. mysogynistic bollocks.

As usual these type of threads always get derailed and start disecting Islam instead of actually replying to the original OP.

The question wasn't Aibu to believe that burkha's are oppressive and poor muslim women don't have a choice etc etc and all other variations that these 23 pages have covered, it was Aibu to feel uncomfortable when walking past them (or words to that effect).

Lets get back to answering the question instead of trying to 'liberate' a whole bunch of ppl who don't need your help!!

I don't feel on edge when I see a woman in a full burka, but I do feel sad. Sad that someone has to lead a life to pander to an extreme view of a religion based on making men comfortable and feel in control.

I haven't ever spoken to, socialised with or interacted with a woman in a full burka in any way so I can't really say whether or not it would make me on edge. I would hope not, I'm quite tolerant of different appearances and I think there is a lot of pressure on people in this country to look the same. But since I met most of my friends since uni through doing sports such as swimming, running, mountain biking, hill walking, horse riding and so on, I think most women compelled to wear a full burka in public at all times might be rather restricted on how they can socialise.

I would equally sad to see a man wearing a full burka because of the above restrictions caused by it. But I don't think I have ever seen one doing so...

I've never seen a lady in a burka in the UK - not even in my Muslim-majority part of London. Do you mean a niqab?

Addicted threads evolve on mumsnet. the original question was answered in the first pages.

it would be very boring to just stick to that one comment.

thanks for you input but actually we can discuss what we like.

There is also the issue of security.

Hoodies have been banned from shopping centres because the people wearing them can't be easily identified on CCTV.

HOODIES, FFS.

A group of people wearing balaclavas/scarves over their faces/crash helmets would not be allowed in a supermarket/bank/shopping centre/jewellers/post office because of the threat to security.

Yet no-one DARE ask a woman to remove her niqab. Not even airport security officers when the murderer of PC Sharon Beshenivsky skipped the country wearing one.
I googled the story for you:www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/pc-sharon-beshenivskys-evil-killer-408188#.UuKv7bTLfIU

But better still that you read the search results from my search "pc sharon beshenivsky killer flees in burka" then you can see HOW many criminals have gone unchallenged in the most security conscious places in the country!

www.google.co.uk/search?q=pc+sharon+beshenivsky+killer+flees+in+burka&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&gws_rd=cr&ei=z6_iUqf_KMav0QWghoFA

Sorry- clickable

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/pc-sharon-beshenivskys-evil-killer-408188#.UuKv7bTLfIU

As usual these type of threads always get derailed

You're right of course, but it's hard to discuss why some may feel uncomfortable around burkas without it drifting off into the reasons they feel that way - which surely brings us right into issues such as repression??

FYI - burqas are an uncommon form of dress for Muslim women. The hijab (headscarf with the whole face visible) is by far the most common. The burqa is mostly restricted to Afghanistan and parts of Pakistan, and expats from there.

I think this picture says it all really - implicit beauty norms are just as patriarchal and damaging as explicitly dictated ones. I think for non-Muslim feminists to decide that these women are oppressed without talking to them or getting their POV is really shit and imperalist. Muslim women can speak for themselves and there are lots of feminist Muslim women who talk about their decision to cover or not to cover as the case may be. Are some Muslim women oppressed? Undoubtedly so, but all women are oppressed by the patriarchy. Muslim women are not a homogenous group.

coffee plenty in Birmingham and handsworth.

and yes I certainly know what a burka is, guessing most posters do.

I hate these sorts of discussions.

We need to return to the wise words of one of our greatest philosphers, Alan Partridge (Alpha Papa):

"You must never criticise Muslims! Only Christians. And Jews, a little bit…"

it's complete and utter. mysogynistic bollocks

Spot on.

YouTheCat "you'd find that most of us originate from the same few places"

No we don't, unless you are talking about back when the first humanoid tribe was living in Africa.

"Muslims also originate from the same few places, historically"

As I said below, that is demonstrably false. I give you white Turks whose ancestors have come from Central Asia and black Africans - as ethnically different as it is humanly possible. Christians also come from all over the world, thanks to Christianity's historical interest in converting other populations, by the sword or with missionaries.

On the other hand, Jews are not interested in converting others to their religion and they have traditionally married within their own community for the most part, which is why they are genetically very similar to each other and it is genetically possible to identify someone as Jewish, as said the studies I linked to in my previous post. And that is why "Jew" is considered a race, whereas "Christian" or "Muslim" are not.

There is really no point in going into more detail in this, which was just meant as a quick answer to whoever said Muslims must be a race too because Jews are considered a race.

I haven't RTFT, but your are of course BU!!

I don't often see a woman in burka but when i do, all i tend of think of is Dave Gorman's comedy show where he wondered allowed about how they might eat an ice cream in public

BUT and this has nothing to do with religeon whatsoever, it would be so easy to take advantage of this if you were engaging in criminal activities. That does worry me a bit, i have to be honest about that - I mean, could you tell the difference between a woman in burka and a man?

It doesn't put me on edge but it makes me depressed, it looks like the woman has sort of been erased or made blank

CHOICE

And it is my choice not to converse with someone covering their face.

Why is my choice not respected as much as theirs?

exactly mashyup, like a non - person.

Body - funny how these type of threads 'evolve' the same way. Discuss what you like, lets just not pretend its not all just a good old excuse to get on the muslim bashing band wagon (and yes, stating that all muslim women with any intelligence wouldn't choose to cover, is muslim bashing jimmy).

Puzzled - if the OP was meant to be about repression she would've kicked it off like that, not how she felt intimated. Interesting that you can be intimated by a group of ppl you feel are repressed!

I can choose to be a nazi and racist and violent. Would you respect my choice?

Why should I respect someones choice if I find it offensive and harmful?

Can I pick my kids up from school naked? Or in a Nazi uniform?

Choice is not sancrosanct. You have to respect the society you live in.

You can't choose to assault people just because you think you have a right to choose how you live your life.

None of us have real choice unless these choices fit into the norms of the society we live in.

Addicted are you very young? it's a very young response to simply accuse posters of Muslim bashing.

Muslim women are not required to wear burkas in the Koran. it's an utterly man made bollocks.

therefore discussing the burkah is not Muslim bashing.

Puzzled - if the OP was meant to be about repression she would've kicked it off like that, not how she felt

That's perfectly true, though when you get a large group of folk joining a thread it does tend to ... errr ... develop? Anyway, as long as the "talk guidelines" are in place, I don't consider it my place to tell others what they can and can't discuss

Bodygoingsouth you think having no prejudice is only for the young ? Very sad. You might have gotten more right wing and bigoted as you aged but not everyone has.

Body what is a burka?