aibu to feel slightly on edge when I come across women in the full black burka?

[caroleharolde]

I just always feel slightly threatened, I know the vast majority of Muslims are lovely nonviolent people but.just this sight always unnerve me. Be honest, who hadn't felt a bit uncomfortable when passing by a huddle of the burqa wearers? Not trying to be racist, I'd feel the same if it were Christians or Jews or any other religion wearing it.

do you know any muslim women who cover jimmy have you heard their view on this?

Muslim men are expected to dress modestly and menu do. Muslim women are expected to cover their hair and dress modestly - there's really not that much difference. I often see women in hijab with tight jeans. Many Muslim men have wives, daughters etc who don't cover so not sure that most Muslim men do think women who don't cover are easy.

Give me a loose fitting burka over a leopard print spandex catsuit and stiletto heels any day!

I read that as you would wear the leopard print under the burka at first :)

Would Jimmy even be bothered? She was quite rude and dismissive of one Muslim woman who posted on this thread.

everyone's opinion is valid here though and in real life as long as there is no incitement to hate. or my rule of thumb setting out to hurt.

Yes I have. Most of the answers have been along the lines of that they have no choice, that it would offend their husband and father. Also they have told me that it 'would be disrespectful if other men saw their faces'.

They struggle to eat, can't enjoy the breeze on a hot summers day, they're restricted in what jobs they can get, I could go on.

Also if covering makes you inferior to men does wearing high heels make you inferior? I mean why would you, they are uncomfortable and restrict your movement.

What Hettiepetal said... it is feminist issue:

'Islam is not a race - it's a religion, an ideology. Asking about it, or even criticising it is not racist.

For a website full of women who pride themselves on their liberal leanings, it's never ceases to amaze me how few of you actually understand what "racism" is.

It's also amazing that, given how you pretty much all consider yourselves feminists, you're so blase about the most visible form of female suppression that it's possible to see.

Oh - it's their culture, innit? They've chosen to "preserve their modesty" this way.

Oh, really? How many of you would choose to preserve your modesty by walking around in a tent? How many of you even think you should have to preserve your modesty? That'll be none.

Some choices are not actually choices at all, are they - not when people have been brainwashed into them since birth. That's not a choice.'

YouTheCat- when was I rude?

You're very quick at being sarcastic and rude yourself without bringing anything credible to the discussion.

Joysmum ALL religions are sexist and mysoginistic the Christian religion doesn't have the dibs in that.

an area which was more muslims than whites

This sort of thinking is a problem. Muslims can be (and often are) white. The majority of non white people are not muslim.

This sort of post said automatically without thinking, does my head in.

Banning the niqab won't stop oppression. There will still be the same amount of Muslim women who are abused.
Women of all races and religion are oppressed and we use different rhetoric to do it.
Making women feel uncomfortable by stopping them wearing what they are used to won't make them less likely to be oppressed.
Work on fighting the misogyny that all women experience. Banning the niqab is just racism thinly veiled as women's rights.
It's simply because you are used to the misogyny that secular or non Muslim UK women experience that you don't see it as the same issue.

absolutely spot on itsinabox

UkatLast well said.

You were rude and dismissive towards Defuse. And you have an air of sarcasm and superiority towards those who disagree with you for their own valid reasons.

My views are my own. I do not express them because of a desire to be seen as some right on liberal. Very fucking insulting.

I struggle with a dichotomy of views on this.

On the one hand, I am very uncomfortable with a perception that it is a requirement for women to cover themselves purely for reasons of supposed "modesty", or because men might otherwise be overcome with lust and that women would give in to that if they were not covered, etc; I am particularly against women being forced to wear anything, let alone what always seems to be a very uncomfortable and encumbering garment.

On the other hand, if women choose to wear the burkha, and would be uncomfortable otherwise, I absolutely don't see why they shouldn't. I have known a number of feisty young Muslim women who wear the niqab and are prepared to fight for their right to do so in environments where it might otherwise be banned, for example schools, and I accept that some women do genuinely prefer to cover themselves.

But whatever their reasons for wearing a burkha, I really don't feel in the least uncomfortable or "on edge" when dealing with someone wearing one, and I can't for the life of me see why you should. The person within the clothes is what is important. I am particularly concerned that those who claim to feel on edge only seem to have that feeling in relation to women wearing burkhas; I wonder why they are not similarly uncomfortable with nuns in habits, people wearing wedding dresses with veils, people wearing motor cycle helmets, and indeed anyone wearing any form of unusual religious or national dress. People often cite the possibility of terrorism, but in practice most terrorists aim to blend into the background and carry bombs in things like backpacks, but no-one seems to claim the same unease around people wearing backpacks. There is, I am afraid, one obvious explanation for why people make this claim only in relation to burkhas, and it is in essence that it is down to sheer unreasoning prejudice.

I can't understand your arguement. Can you give an example of any muslim men who 'choose' to cover their face?

There isn't any.

WHY NOT?

Can you please explain.

youthecat - Would Jimmy even be bothered? She was quite rude and dismissive of one Muslim woman who posted on this thread.

I feel that you wer VERY rude and dismissive of Jimmy.

nennypops thought your post was good until the last sentence.

people may dislike the burka for many reasons other than 'sheer prejudice' personally I see it as a very visible sign of sexism and oppression.

nothing else presents women as a group, totally faceless, all dressed the same in black, no personality showing.. just women.

All lumped together, all the same.

sorry I find it insulting and mysogynistic. but their choice, well some if them anyway, who knows.

BunchOfFives has it spot on, I think

^I don't feel threatened by people wearing a burkha. I do feel impatient though. One, because surely it's possible to dress modestly without covering yourself head to toe in black with one hole to see from and one to breathe from. An two, because it is an oppressive garment in itself and in its social and cultural context that pressures muslim women into thinking it betokens some kind of spiritual commitment.
Really pisses me off that if you think burkhas are positively medieval you are accused of being racist. I hate all forms of prejudice - including oppressive apparel and a sexist, bigoted interpretation of religions. ^

I watched The Big Question last Sunday, and they talked about banning the burka. One woman interviewed in the studio (wearing a burka) said very simply that if the burka were banned in public places, she would simply stay at home. Very matter of factly, like it was not a big deal. Cover yourself from head to foot or DO NOT LEAVE THE HOUSE and it's NOT oppression?

When I put the two choices to my DD (12) she rebelled, quite naturally. I believe that the only reason a woman "chooses" to wear a burka (or stay at home) is because the message is drummed into them from birth.
You can be a good Muslim without covering your face at all times. And if you CAN'T, the WHY DO MEN NOT WEAR IT? It's not a cultural or religious thing, its oppression against women.

I've almost been knocked off my push bike by a woman driving a car whilst wearing a burka. My immediate reaction, after braking and swerving wildly to avoid death or serious injury, was to shout "are you BLIND!?" at the driver. And I saw that, yes, she almost was.

I have been into primary schools where in the reception area, the staff members all have their photograph and job title. For easy identification for parents and children, I assume. Yet some of the staff were wearing burkas for the photo!

There was a Teaching Assistant in the news in the last year or two, because she had been asked to uncover her face when teaching the children. WHY would she feel the need to keep her face covered in a classroom full of kids?

The choice is: wear the burka or stay at home.

THAT IS NOT CHOICE.

youthecat you are making this far too personal.

Making women feel uncomfortable by stopping them wearing what they are used to won't make them less likely to be oppressed.

I strongly disagree with this.

Banning the niqab is just racism thinly veiled as women's rights.

I disagree again.

I come from a former colonial country where the majority of people are muslim. Also an even bigger majority of people of my own race are muslim. I get totally pissed of with people saying I am racist because I object to full face covering.

Still no reply to why muslim men NEVER cover their face.

Please enlighten me.

Yanbu. I never understand why men don't have to wear them but women do. I've seen husbands in shorts, t shirts etc while the poor wife is stuck in a black cover all, even in the heat of summer. You can dress modestly without having to cover your face, very oppressive imo.

Quote Nennypops: 'But whatever their reasons for wearing a burkha, I really don't feel in the least uncomfortable or "on edge" when dealing with someone wearing one, and I can't for the life of me see why you should. The person within the clothes is what is important.'

Really surprised Nennypops that not being able to have eye contact presents no issue for you in dealing with people. A headscarf is fine because you can still see the face and 'bond' with the person...anymore than that...not so much and why should I have to speak to someone I cannot meet the gaze of in the 21st Century in a Western democracy? That's the 'when in Rome argument' but the feminist one of it being oppressive is much stronger.