aibu to feel slightly on edge when I come across women in the full black burka?

[caroleharolde]

I just always feel slightly threatened, I know the vast majority of Muslims are lovely nonviolent people but.just this sight always unnerve me. Be honest, who hadn't felt a bit uncomfortable when passing by a huddle of the burqa wearers? Not trying to be racist, I'd feel the same if it were Christians or Jews or any other religion wearing it.

Diffuse - explain this then:

The Koran gives a similar justification for a head to toe covering for women, “O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies that they may thus be distinguished and not molested.” (Koran 33:59)

And it's not just sexist to women but to men as well.
It implies that all men are rapists when/if they see some flesh.

oh dear i knew it would not be long until section of the koran would be used

read it as a whole for a better understanding

why is this always done in relation to any thread that has an islamic connection

The Koran has been mentioned lots already. Do keep up now Freudian

i know it has

you are taking bits of it to suit your argument but you have no real understanding of the koran

if you did fine but you do not

Please do not tell me I have no understanding of the Koran.

Thank you

"in islam, men have a role to fulfil and women have a role to fulfil. The woman is categorically NOT inferior to man"

But that's not what Jimmy's Koranic quotation suggested, is it? Just as so much other "Islamic" behaviour can imply female inferiority. I believe Jimmy deserves thanks for presenting evidence-based facts in such a thoughtful way - also I notice that few have been able to refute many points she's made

Having worked in recruitment in a sector where about 85% of applicants are Asian, I'm sadly only too well aware how very many of their womenfolk are regarded; I'm certainly not going to excuse this in some misguided attempt to flash "liberal credentials" and while everyone's entitled to their view, I find it very disturbing when folks cry "racism" to avoid debate about such an important issue. We do nobody any favours by gagging genuine opinions, least of all the women themselves

i already have done :)

at least have more of a background knowledge if you are going to use a quote/verse for your argument

Puzzled- thank you

Freudian - there's lots of points I've made that you conveniently chosen not to mention. Funny that

please point them out

i think i have replied to most of your messages may have missed a few as i am working (though obviously not very hard)

You've tried very hard to 'nit pick' everything I say but I've yet to read anything positive you can bring to the discussion in support for the burqa.

i support choice

I don't feel threatened. People have the right to dress as they wish, but I would exercise my right not to speak to someone whose face I could not see. And I think that all face gear should be removed at passport control, in banks etc.

You're very welcome, Jimmy

It's been my experience that those in regular contact with Muslims tend to have a far greater understanding of the issues, which perhaps isn't surprising. Because of some of the things they see, they're also FAR less likely to indulge in the kind of "competitive liberalism" we sometimes see on here ...

and put arguments against much of what you have posted because i do not agree

Do you honestly believe they get to choose? Because I don't

If we've done with the burkha what about turning to Hasidic Jewish men? My DS literally screamed when he first saw one.

i think walking past someone with the entire face/body covered in a large black sheet would unnerve most people tbh,

being able to see someones face is a basic part of human interaction even on an unconscious level, not being able to see someones face does feel a tad strange, I don't think that makes me a racist.

Only on page 6 so apologies if someone has already posted this, but thought it was relevant to the discussion:

www.buzzfeed.com/tasneemnashrulla/32-powerful-and-brutally-honest-tweets-from-lifeofamuslimfem?s=mobile

Caitlin17 maybe one for you, if you're still around!

I find it quite tiresome when people misquote the Quran to make a negative point about islam but then pretend that they just want to learn.

If you truly want to learn, then why are you not interested in all the teachings of the Quran.

The Quran most certainly does not imply that all men are potential rapists nor that women are at fault or are asking to be raped if they do not cover. It is a gross misrepresentation and to be quite frank it is highly offensive too.

You can pick out verses to suit your own agenda or you can read it in full and learn why the verses were revealed and THEN should you come back and say explain, then I would be happy to explain rather than feeling that I must justify.

For the record, there is this verse too:

'Tell the believing men to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things), and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts, etc.). That is purer for them. Verily, Allâh is All-Aware of what they do.' Surah Noor.

Before you jump up and declare that this verse implies that all men are potential rapists, then let me tell you there is a similar verse for women too.

'And tell the believing women to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things), and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts, etc.)'.

yes because i know women who have made that choice

Trying to pick apart any religious text is a fairly pointless exercise.

I dislike EVERY religion including the one I was born into.

Every religious book/text is open to interpretation based on what the reader wants to believe.

To address the point made, I would always be unsure about any person who had their face covered for whatever reason, whether it is in a burqua, under a paper bag, balaclava or helmet or hoodie. And someone said don't worry it is a respectable woman under there. What do you base that presumption on? If someone is concealed you don't know who they are. And as for respectable, respectable is as respectable does (not what one wears). I prefer a decent person anyway, respectable conjures ideas of mere social conformity, not the character of a person.

Nuns dress is a remnant from the middle ages when they adopted the gear of the time, in a plain form. Women in Europe wore wimples then, and the other stuff. Most of them wear normal plain stuff now, don't they?

As an aside, the burqua (and other forms of female dress) seems to imbued with so many political issues, gender, power, immigration, religion.

It is up to the person what they want to wear. Most people agree with that, up to a point. However, it is not common to feel comfortable with a person being concealed by a bike helmet (even Hollande), or balaclava or paper bag or towel. Why would you feel more comfortable with someone wearing a burqua for a cultural or religious reason (whether that religious reason is valid or not is different argument)? Would everyone saying it is a religious choice to conceal their face also give the same latitude and respect to people choosing the other methods of concealment in public spaces for other reasons? Their choices (if not for a criminal intent) have as much validity and deserve as much respect as someone playing a religious choice card. I'm curious on that point.