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AIBU?

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Original poster

to worry about the accused?

539 replies

WitchWay · 20/01/2014 20:12

DLT for example. How is anything going to be proven? Are people jumping on a bandwagon or am I very wrong to even think that? I don't condone abuse - far from it - but surely they can't all have been sailing along in JS's wake - can they?

OP posts:
SuzanneUK · 22/01/2014 09:29

Statistically it's minute and as such merits minute attention.

You're not a fan of Quantum Physics then?

SuzanneUK · 22/01/2014 09:30

Oh God, he's back!

Tabard alert!

Tabard alert!

NiceTabard · 22/01/2014 09:30

I think maybe we should all have a chat about DLT and how "unfortunate" it is that he has ended up in court.

Poor lamb.

NiceTabard · 22/01/2014 09:31

Quantum physics has nothing to do with how rape complaints are handled in the UK.

fcukkedup · 22/01/2014 09:32

what I'm not a fan of is rape apologists and people who support and stand by rapists.

Beachcomber · 22/01/2014 09:32

Above post was response to this nonsense;

The point remains that wanting a fair trial for the alleged offender is taken to indicate an absence of support for victims.

That the accused of any crime deserves a fair hearing is taken as a given in a democratic society with an open justice system. And that is the way it should be.

The problem with sexual offences is not their alleged perpetrators not being given a fair hearing. The problem with sexual offences is that the vast vast majority of them are got away with scot free as they are never reported or never make it to court. The problem with sexual offences is that they are very very common, they are vastly gendered both in terms of perpetrators and victims and they are rarely punished. This encourages perpetrators (who are very often serial attackers) and compromises on women's safety and well being. It also shows that, yes, sexual violence is something that happens to women and they are (currently) expected to just put up with. Despite it being taken like rilly rilly seriously by like everyone. Hmm

SuzanneUK · 22/01/2014 09:34

what I'm not a fan of is rape apologists and people who support and stand by rapists.

Then we have that much in common at least.

fcukkedup · 22/01/2014 09:34

Or people who minimise and dismiss the impact of rape and sexual abuse.

You can play word games with me all day - it won't change anyone's views - maybe it provides you with some level of healing and enables you to start to work through your own clearly deep seated issues.

SuzanneUK · 22/01/2014 09:35

The problem with sexual offences . . .

I think you'll find there's more than one problem with sexual offences.

SuzanneUK · 22/01/2014 09:36

Or people who minimise and dismiss the impact of rape and sexual abuse.

And we that in common too.

Hooray!

fcukkedup · 22/01/2014 09:38

no honey we don't because personally I've never compared an internet row with bei g assaulted and abused whereas you on the other hand ......

SuzanneUK · 22/01/2014 09:39

It won't change anyone's views

Speak for yourself, dear.

Speak for yourself and don't try to hide being the skirts of people who might, in fact, be a lot more reasonable than you are.

fcukkedup · 22/01/2014 09:40

what on earth are you on about??

SuzanneUK · 22/01/2014 09:42

I've never compared an internet row with being assaulted and abused

Being bullied and beaten verbally on the Internet can be just as damaging as being abused physically.

Or are you truly unaware of the many suicides it has occasioned?

Original poster
WitchWay · 22/01/2014 09:45

It wasn't about DLT per se, I just cited him as an example.

I do think there's a difference between serious sexual assault & knowing that it was such & that it was wrong (assaulted & assaulter) & the sort of casual "sexist" minor level comments or touching that is ALWAYS wrong when aimed at a child but could be construed as part of life by someone older / more confident / more experienced. Where to draw the line, there's the problem. I hope all who are guilty of serious offences are found guilty & punished. I hope what was done in the spirit of "harmless fun" at the time & interpreted as such at the time is left out of it. It concerns me that there may be women, hoping for compensation or payments for newspaper articles etc are not thinking "Ooh, I remember when Celeb X pinched my bottom at a party when I was 17; I told my mate & she was dead jealous. Now I think about it that was abuse, wasn't it. Right..."

(Sits back & waits for flak)

OP posts:
NiceTabard · 22/01/2014 09:46

Which of Suzanne's posts are you referring to, fcukkedup? I must have missed that one.

fcukkedup · 22/01/2014 09:48

But you have a choice - you can walk away - and you aren't being bullied you are being challenged on your views.

Someone or ones disagreeing with you because of those views is not bullying.

someone disagreeing with you, stalking you across the forum, trying to identify you in real life and following it on from there - that's bullying.

I've had a child internet bullied - I ended up involving the police - I would find it laughable that you think there is a comparison.

It's perfectly clear the reason this thread is making you feel so bad is because it affecss you on a deeply personally level and you can't afford to let that happen as it will change your views of a real life event.

You possibly feel bullied because it's too close to home for you.

fcukkedup · 22/01/2014 09:50

*than the abusive real-life people they purport to condemn

.Isn't it amazing that people who are at such pains to show unlimited sympathy to real-world victims of abuse are often the first to join forces in a mob to bully and berate and browbeat most mercilessly anyone who annoys them on a chat forum?**

SuzanneUK · 22/01/2014 09:50

You won't get much agreement from the rabid element on this thread, Witchy.

Better wait till later in the day when the more-rational element arrives.

Beachcomber · 22/01/2014 09:50

Another issue with sexual offences is that even when they do make it to court, juries are unwilling to convict for fear of 'ruining a man's life'.

Hence the character assassination of the victim. So that some poor man doesn't get his life ruined by being convicted of the rilly rilly terrible crime of rape because there was probably a grey area/she had slept with him before/she had been drinking/she didn't scream 'no'/she looks a bit slutty/she was wearing clothes/she wasn't wearing clothes/she had sex with his mate/insert rape myth here it isn't that bad for a woman to put up with a bit of sex she doesn't want rape is dreadful but perhaps this wasn't real rape not that really serious kind that will affect his life just the not so serious kind that happens to women all the time

NiceTabard · 22/01/2014 09:53

WitchWay

One of the women who complained about DLT was 15 at the time.
One woman has said she was afraid she was going to be raped.
I haven't read all the reports so those are off the top of my head from yesterday.

Why are you keen to believe that it was all a harmless bit of fun, and now women are trying to cash in, rather than that they were assaulted and they didn't think it was all fun and games at the time and they didn't know what to do about it?

Look at Stuart Hall and the droves of people who came out to say why pursue an old man for a bit of harmless slap and tickle decades ago. They have gone a bit quiet now.

The police should take all reports seriously, and investigate accordingly. They haven't been doing that, for years. Which is why this has all blown up now.

Personally if someone tells me they have been assaulted my reaction is to believe them, rather than disbelieve them. The disbelief is part of the reason men like warboys, reid, hall, saville were able to get away with it for so long. Until our attitude towards victims changes, men like them will continue to get away with it.

SuzanneUK · 22/01/2014 09:53

But you have a choice - you can walk away

In the same way that all those dead boys and girls could simply have turned off their phones and computers and 'walked away'?

Please!

NiceTabard · 22/01/2014 09:55

Even children who are victims of sexual offences are accused openly and publically of lying.

Our culture is just really fucked up on this point.

When social workers and police refer to victims of child sexual exploitation as "child prostitutes" then we have a problem, clearly.

fcukkedup · 22/01/2014 09:56

you are clearly hurting - as someone who holds these beliefs because someone close to them has obviously been accused - maybe you'd be better off seeking real life support than bandy words with internet strangers who are better read and more well informed than you on the subject

if something hurts you - poking at it isn't always the right answer

you are always going to end up feeling like this if you post and propogate rape myth and victim blaming propaganda on mumsnet

SuzanneUK · 22/01/2014 09:57

I would find it laughable

Yes, I can picture you laughing as the cyber bullies kick someone to a pulp for daring to support 'justice for all'.

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