To have expected this woman to move seats

[appletarts]

I was on the train back from London, with a first class ticket. In the carriage there was one space available for a buggy with a seat facing it, also described as disabled access. I arrived just as a woman was putting her things on the seat, I said excuse me do you think I could put my buggy here? She goes yes but sits down in the seat opposite it. Uh... I said do you think I could have that seat so I can look after my child during the journey and she starts moaning saying she's booked in advance and wants to sit in her booked seat. I asked her does she have a specific need which means she needs this seat, she says no. I said well I'm sure you don't want to meet the needs of my child for three hours do you? How about you let me have that seat so I can look after my DD and if someone comes on a disputes you being in that free seat we'll deal with it then. She then moans more saying she's booked and why is she being made out to be in the wrong, lots of eye rolling and tutting on her part. I say she can sit in 99% of the seats available and I need this 1%, I need this one seat. Eventually she moves but behaves as if she's been evicted and sits with a cats arse face for most of journey sighing everytime my dd dared utter a gurgle. Seriously? Is this unreasonable of me?

Ah fwiend

Asking someone can they please move
oh is that all it was? sorry but in your OP I thought you said,

" I asked her does she have a specific need which means she needs this seat, she says no. I said well I'm sure you don't want to meet the needs of my child for three hours do you? How about you let me have that seat so I can look after my DD"

which sounds really rude "entitled" and passive aggressive tbh i would have told you too eff off

plus i would have told you that my specific need was that i was faecally incontinent, that would have got rid of you like a shot

You see, as an English language teacher I have some difficulty here. Because we teach our furrin students that the "Would you mind....." construction is for dead polite people. And maybe you did use that construction. But to then ask her to (basically) get her medical notes out/show you her wooden leg/colostomy bag/whatever to prove she needed that space sort of negates the would-you-mind bit.

And what everlong said.

Loving that the one person who agrees with you is right, and the rest of MN wrong though.

tee hee nauticant :-)

don't get too victorious appletarts. whether i agree with you doesn't matter. you're against public opinion.

i just thinking alot of you are missing the bigger picture here. You're enjoying being smug about your own abilities to travel easily and jumping on the hidden disabilites bandwagon, which is wrong. and yes, taking the OP' s percieved rudeness as carte blanche to be rude to her. as always in aibu

The issue is that public transport should be more accessible to all, and trains should have flexible foldable bookable seating in all carriages. That's what we should be shouting about, not whether a feisty mum should have been been a bit meeker and seethed in silence at another woman's slight selfishness.

anyway, tax return...

You were rude to persist after she had said no once.

'Flexible' folding seating (as found on the new tube carriages) can be very difficult indeed for people with some conditions to use. It would also be pretty uncomfortable for a 3 hour plus journey. And wouldn't allow for tables - a feature of train carriages which most people find vital especially on long journeys.

I think I stood up for all the mums who feel like an inconvenience to other people because they have small children.

There was me thinking theae were the actions of a rude, pushy woman with a bogus sense of entitlement, but actually op you've it made me realise your actions were the selfless actions of a trailblazing crusader for truth and justice on the East Coast mainline. A veritable modern day Rosa Parks. A thousand thank yous

I really meant that.

we disagree zzzzzzz.

did you look at the links i posted?

"Why is it patronising to use the seat if it makes travelling with your non wheelchair supported disability easier, but not if it makes traveling with your child easier?"

because there are other priority seats on the train specifically for other needs, this space is the only space suitable for wheelchairs, and also if it isn't needed, buggies.

and everlong, people with disabilites aren't 'entitled', that's lumping them all together and making them out to be something different. Positive discrimination is still discrimination.

You don't strike me as the type who'd ever feel like an inconvenience, OP. But nice of you to think of the rest of us.

Hey applecarts, I'd normally be quite responsive to people with small children on public transport (bored commuter here) but after your last post I might dig my heels in and refuse to move now. Just in case the "asker" is you in "doing the right thing mode".

Hoochy that space is for wheelchair users. It was campaigned for by wheelchair users and is there solely because wheelchair users did something about the lack of space for them on public transport.

Buggies may use it at the transport company's discretion. It is not a right.

We travelled a lot by train, when the boys were little. We went from London to Aberdeen when ds2 was 5 weeks old, and ds1 was under 2 - that is a journey of 7.5 hours - and d'you know, appletarts - we managed just fine in normal seats.

You haven't stood up for women with small children - you have embarrassed every single one of us who manages to use public transport with small children without having to throw our weight around and act like entitled loons who are the first person in the world to ever travel with a baby!

Oh - and all that nonsense about it being too hard to manage to feed your child unless they were in the buggy - utter tosh - especially as you were in First Class, where the seats are more spacious!

SDT agree completely!

I can’t believe some of the people on here saying that unless disabled people are in a wheelchair they are less entitled to the seat that someone with a buggy, what a horrible attitude.
Coochy, public transport should be accessible to all, but not being able to sit with your child in a buggy for the entire journey does not mean that it is inaccessible. I find your comments extremely distasteful. People with disabilities who have real accessibility issues would be unable to travel if they did not have the accessibility options available to them. This would massively effect them socially, economically as they may be prevented from working and psychologically as they would become more isolated and it would not be good for their self esteem.
In contrast the OP was minorly inconvenienced because she may not have been able to do exactly what she wanted in the easiest way for her, but she was still able to complete her journey and at no point was at risk of being unable to travel or suffering real pain or discomfort in order to do so.
That’s the MASSIVE difference and that’s why it’s not being ‘entitled’ when you’re disabled but it is when you’re a shiftless cow who expects the world to inconvenience itself because you’re too bloody lazy to pack a finger picnic and book a seat.

How old is your child OP ?

It's not heroic to fold up a buggy and sit with a child on your lap. It's normal and no great hardship. Yes the baby might be sleeping but that is Sod's law. Babies often sleep at inconvenient times. You also have to wake them up when you leave the house in a car or board an aeroplane.

Yes the seat the woman had booked would have been convenient in the circumstances. Unfortunately it wasn't free so bad luck - except not so much bad luck for you as the woman you harassed out of her seat.

OP you were VVU, rude and entitled, and you most certainly did not do any favours for other mothers

I'm getting the idea that most of you prefer to be heroes, fold your buggy instantly and sit in a cloud of your own smug satisfaction that you are right

No I don't think that I am a hero, but I am perfectly capable folding a buggy and sitting with my child, on my lap, its not that big a deal.

You seem totally unable to accept that this woman was perfectly within her rights to say no to you and sit in the seat she had booked, her reasons for having or booking that seat were none of your business. To have continued asking and harassing this woman out of her seat after she said no, because you wanted to sit there, was beyond rude.

Manners cost nothing and actually would probably have made quite a difference in this situation

And agree with seasick sal, there was no accessibility issue here.

YABVVU
and don't say that you are doing it for women with buggies as you are not.
I commuted (eg very busy trains) for years with toddler - and with an unfoldable pushchair (was easier to get off train with big wheels) -
At most I would ask people if they would move out of the gap where pushchairs can go - if it was standing room only then it was the safest place for the pushchair to do (and also in this situation it was safer to have DS in pushchair even if I could have folded it) - people would offer to give me the seat next to it but I didn't generally take them up on it as frankly i could stand just as easily as they could and entertain DS from standing.
if there were seats I'd sit down - with DS on my knee.
If I was on a longer train I'd book a seat.

You leave the pushchair in a space and sit down in your seat(s) - its not difficult