To have expected this woman to move seats

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I was on the train back from London, with a first class ticket. In the carriage there was one space available for a buggy with a seat facing it, also described as disabled access. I arrived just as a woman was putting her things on the seat, I said excuse me do you think I could put my buggy here? She goes yes but sits down in the seat opposite it. Uh... I said do you think I could have that seat so I can look after my child during the journey and she starts moaning saying she's booked in advance and wants to sit in her booked seat. I asked her does she have a specific need which means she needs this seat, she says no. I said well I'm sure you don't want to meet the needs of my child for three hours do you? How about you let me have that seat so I can look after my DD and if someone comes on a disputes you being in that free seat we'll deal with it then. She then moans more saying she's booked and why is she being made out to be in the wrong, lots of eye rolling and tutting on her part. I say she can sit in 99% of the seats available and I need this 1%, I need this one seat. Eventually she moves but behaves as if she's been evicted and sits with a cats arse face for most of journey sighing everytime my dd dared utter a gurgle. Seriously? Is this unreasonable of me?

ENTITLED or what?
I think this is now the official mumsnet definition of the word.

"...you don't get to choose which airline seat you get or I never have anyway"

You must fly with some very cheap airlines then.

Oh and I do this for anyone old, young, mums etc.

Rushed for the train yesterday, only just made it so sat in the group of 4 seats as they were nearest. Next stop a young family got on and I moved so they could sit together. Consideration for others is the best way I think. If the op tried politeness she would probably find it would help.

I like the idea that the lady who had correctly booked the seat she required (for whatever reason) in advance and was correctly sitting with her bum on it minding her own business might be the one not used to travelling.

I rather imagine it's our OP that doesn't travel much.

Please, OP, never ever fly Ryanair. You will be that woman who tried to turf me and dd out of our (paid for and reserved priority boarding- because she's little, and we travel alone and so it's worth paying the extra to not get caught up in the bunfight with the plebs ) seats last week so she could sit together with her great galumphing teenagers "but there's 3 of us!" "Then get on the fucking plane earlier, like we did!".

Discussing with the disabled travel booking folks, I've heard of one woman who regularly travels flat on a rollmat in the wheelchair space, because of spinal problems. She can't sit for long periods of time and also can't afford to be jolted around standing.

D'you know Ryanair are doing all allocated seating from Feb.....

I meant that you cannot book it if you are travelling with young children, only if you are a wheelchair user. Which I don't disagree with. what i disagree with is that it's the only space you can put a buggy. I think it would be better if when you are travelling with young children then you could book a space too for you and your buggy. and as i said this would be simple to achieve, a folding seat at the end of every carriage. It could also be booked too by people with specific needs for it. And if unbooked would just be a seat.

I find it bizarre that posters on a site like mumsnet don't support that idea and prefer to bash mothers who find it difficult fold to buggies whilst holding babies and luggage on public transport. Stiff upper lip old girls, just struggle on for we are mothers.

zzzzzzz, I'm sure that if you explained those difficulties to the Assisted Booking line then they would support you to book an appropriate seat, but not the wheelchair space. because there are other seats with more leg room, or with more space or facing away from other passengers that would be appropriate for your needs. But just one wheelchair space.

I'm normally unfailingly helpful. Borderline do-gooder type. But there's no way I'd risk losing the seat I'd booked to cover for someone else's lack of planning if it might mean standing up for hours myself. And ticket inspectors can be pretty uptight about passengers on certain tickets being in their booked seats. You got what you wanted anyway, OP, in spite of your rudeness, so what was your problem again?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnet_surveys/a1402273-NOW-CLOSED-Do-you-travel-by-train-with-a-child-in-a-buggy-Take-part-in-a-short-survey-and-win-200-of-high-street-vouchers

more perspectives...

and official mumsnet advice here www.mumsnet.com/travel/surviving-the-journey

'If you're travelling with a buggy-age child, try to book a space next to the disabled area so that, if no one needs to use the space assigned for wheelchair users and on the off-chance that he/she falls asleep, your toddler can sleep in their buggy.'

except any time i've tried to book it, it's not been possible

ho hum. that'll teach me for not having a car.

Yabu. You chased her from her seat. You got what you wanted. What is the point of this op? Crowing much.

zzzzzzz fair enough, that's your experience. don't presume ignorance on my part though. I have a disabled son, disabled mother and aunt and have been a support worker for people with disabilities for the last fifteen years. and still think that the wheelchair space is for wheelchairs first, and then buggies, with other seats on the train being as appropriate.

All the more reason why there should be a bookable flexible/folding removable seat in each carriage though eh?

... as appropriate for travellers with other disabilities - i meant to type

So say OP has parked her entitled arse and buggy in the space for wheelchairs. The train fills up and then someone with a wheelchair and need for the area gets on at a later station. What would OP have done then? I can bet there would have been a lot of huffing and puffing about having to move.

If you choose to sit there with your buggy you have no idea if someone further down the line is going to need it so it makes sense to fold in the first place and settle yourself in a different seat.

How I loathe women who think that pregnancy, a baby or young children of any age gives them rights over he rest of us. The brats are your responsibility and you should make appropriate arrangements for their welfare and comfort. Think before you procreate ffs.

Thank you for taking the time to explain zzzzz. I'm not convinced that the wheelchair spaces I am thinking of actually would help in your stated cases, as they are actually far less private and "safe" than other seating. I know when I'm feeling vulnerable or tired I abandon my (reserved) table space and hunker down in one of the other seats.

Parsing what position would be possible in the wheelchair space seat that isn't possible in the other seating?

Why didn't you book the seat OP? If only the disabled can pre-book it then she was either lying about having booked it or perhaps didn't want to disclose her medical condition to you. Did you book a different seat and hoped you could convince someone to move out of this one instead? Do you do that on every trip? You said the train was empty but filled up by the time it pulled out so there was an excellent chance she could have been left without a seat if everyone else had reserved seats. As it turns out that didn't happen but I can tunderstand why she would be concerned that might happen.

All that said, I do think you've copped a bit of an unfair beating on here for your reasons (though not for the way you responded to 'cats bum' sorry). I've never taken very long trips on the train with the children when they were small enough for a buggy but have suffered the sighs of passengers as they made their way around my buggy (we call it a stroller). We have a middle tier at the end of each carriage that is for passengers who are not mobile enough for the upper or lower tiers. Of course it's impractical to get a baby out of their buggy, fold it up, and then have to worry about opening up again in time at destination. With any luck, they fall asleep in it and cause much less disturbance for other passengers.

I do hope you pre-book the seat in future and not expect others to move out of it - just out of interest what would you have done if a truly disabled passenger in a wheelchair who hadn't booked the seat showed up?

As mentioned further up the post
When you said, "do you mind if I put my buggy here?" I expect she thought you meant, "do you mind if I leave my buggy here and take DD to sit with me somewhere else?" - especially as she'd started settling in
Totally agree with this

Hoochy I think there's some really good carriages being developed. There's a line I use regularly between Leeds and Manchester. Instead of a cold lobby at the end of the carriage the doors open part of the way down the carriage. There's luggage space, fold up seating near the door and toilets, fold-down tables at the wheelchair space, ties for bicycles etc.

My least favourite is one I sometimes take out of London Victoria. The seats are three wide at one side and two at the other, generally facing the next row so that everyone's knees are touching. There are no tables and no luggage space, no flexibility at all, in fact.

OP, whether or not she had a "need" for the seat, it was still a better seat than the one she moved to - more leg room, on its own rather than next to others etc.

So her journey was more uncomfortable than it would have been in her booked seat. For a stranger who was pretty rude to her.

When a really tall person gets on a plane, they might ask a shorter person in the emergency exit row to swap with them, so they have a more comfortable journey, but they should accept a no and be very grateful for a yes - as ultimately, it's more comfortable for the shorter person also!

Or do you think it's reasonable for the taller person to quiz the shorter person in that instance and call them cats bum etc even after the shorter person has agreed to swap?