To be concerned about this girl

[SEmyarse]

Over summer last year dd2 (7) made friends with a girl who it turns out lived round in the next road. She is 8, but a summer birthday so 2 years ahead at school.

They got on great, and I really liked the mum. It became apparent quite quickly though that she is very overenthusiastic about the friendship, and would try and organise the girls to play together every day, and would try and pop in herself and stay for quite a while chatting. This was fine sometimes, and I enjoyed her company, but it was too much for me. I work full time so she would more often arrive while dh was here and hang around him chatting for an hour or more while he was trying to do stuff. He said it made him feel uncomfortable, but it was quite difficult to reign in, especially when we had a childcare crisis and she looked after both dds while we were both at work, which we were very grateful for. The only issue I have with her care is that she seems to massively overfeed them.

I know she's from a troubled background, which I haven't delved into, but during conversations she's mentioned growing up in care, having ADHD and having a support worker. The girl has also mentioned the support worker, and says it's because their house is too messy. I have to admit to being intrigued about her being in care because she seems extremely close to her parents, but I've not asked the reasons and it could be anything.

Over time her beautifully behaved daughter started behaving worse when at our house. i figured she just felt more comfortable with us at first, so she would be cheeky etc, but gradually escalated to her deliberately breaking things. She also got more and more clingy to dh, wanting to hug him all the time, which again he felt uncomfortable with.

We tried to step back a bit, because it was all getting too much. And then her daughter got ill anyway so we didn't see her as much. I was surprised to discover that she ended up in hospital with what had started as a stomach bug since she seems a very robust child. After the hospital trip we tried to maintain occasional contact, but it quickly escalated and she would turn up at our door up to 3 times a day. Dh also ended up being roped into various transport arrangements since she doesn't drive, and he's not very good at saying no.

Again, we tried to gently reduce things, again the daughter was ill, dh drove them to various appointments and the chemist's to get antibiotics, and then she asked us to have her that evening, and asked me to administer the ABs. She told me to give double the dosage written on the bottle, which I wasn't happy to do. I read the leaflet inside, which did say that sometimes double doses could be given if directed by a doctor, but it didn't say that on the bottle so I only gave her one, and mum said she'd give her another when she got back.

There's also been a bit of a to-do over opticians. She kept going on and on about dd2's glasses, how great she looked in them. And then suddenly her daughter needed glasses, and help with lifts to an optician's in a very awkward place. And the glasses repeatedly got broken, and tales of it costing a fortune to mend so now she's not wearing glasses again.

Just before christmas dh had the girls again, and they were being a pain in the neck so he told them to go and play in the bedroom. He heard a lot of noise but thought they were just playing. 20 mins later he went upstairs to find dd2 on her bed drawing and the other girl completely trashing everything, deliberately snapping and jumping on stuff. So he took her home and told her mum that BOTH girls had been naughty.

That was the last we saw of them. We're more than happy for the girls to play together sometimes, but don't want to instigate contact since it always gets out of control.

I bumped into the grandmother who works in co-op (who I didn't recognise, but dd2 did) who said that the girl had been in hospital again over christmas. I asked another neighbour who knows them, who said they'd heard she was in for a 'swollen throat', but was home now.

Then another lady who used to be friends with them sought me out at school to ask if we'd fallen out with her since she'd heard that the girl was in hospital again. She said she knows from experience that this means that she's fallen out with someone again. i explained what had happened and she related almost exactly the same kind of things had happened to her, and always culminated in the daughter being seriously ill. She said 'next thing, you'll hear that she's pregnant. She's been pregnant and miscarried 10 times since I've known her, and always after a drama.' I went home and dh walked in the door and said 'You'll never guess what! I've just seen someone in the village, who told me B is pregnant'.

So her behaviour definitely seems to follow a pattern. and the daughter still isn't back at school over 2 weeks after coming out of hospital (not long I know, but I'm confused by all the frequent hospital visits.) Does all this stuff sound worrying? Do I need to do something? I'm just worried that every time there's a drama the girl ends up in hospital. That's too coincidental right?

I'm sure the school and doctors and support workers are all onto it

Just like the village gossips are!

the woman sounds troubled and has the whole village talking about her be her friend or not it is up to you but stop listening to gossip

Wow that sounds weird. I can see why you are concerned. The mum clearly has problems and this is affecting the dd. It may be dd had problems too. It sounds like people maybe a little to ready with the mean spirited gossip over someone who is clearly a bit weird, and you don't want to get involved with that. But there is a welfare concern and I think you should contact someone about it. Talk to someone at S.S and explain your concern. They can look into this and if it is all a big coincidence or whatever they will drop the case.

X posted with the others and we all said gossip. But if you do talk to SS just tell them your personal story about the dd.

Sounds like she doesn't fit in and is probably very lonely. Some of what you describe is weird but I consider the fact that you let her care for your children to be testament to how you truly think of her? I bet the gossips started talking to you a little earlier than you describe aswell.

Personally I wouldn't do anything. With such frequent trips to the hospital I'm sure that red flags will be raised by the authorities and schools are so much more strict about absence too.

One thing that I found very strange....why on earth was your daughter sat in her bed drawing while another child smashed up her bedroom? Purposely breaking and snapping things? If that's true then that's very odd. My dd would be horrified if someone was breaking her things, she'd tell the to stop, probably get upset and then come and find me if they carried on. Suggests to me that either your dd was taking part and sat on the bed when she heard someone coming or that not all of these incidents are being described accurately.

The only potential gossip is the lady who lives opposite, who genuinely seemed to seek me out because she was also concerned about the daughter, and wanted to know if I'd also noticed the pattern of illness.

The pregnancy thing is neither here nor there, she may well be pregnant for all I know. It just seemed an enormous coincidence right after it had been predicted.

It doesn't seem right to just assume that the support workers are on to it. How many times do we hear of people turning away because they thought someone else would sort things? There may be nothing happening at all, but somehow her daughter is ill enough to need hospital admission every time her mum has a drama.

Believe me, i don't want to be involved, it was a relief not to have them turning up on our doorstep all the time but now I feel something odd is happening I don't think I should hang on to the information just because some of it is gossip. Maybe mum says she has a support worker to keep everyone else off her back.

I wouldn't say that she comes across as weird mostly. She's stunningly pretty, and very thin wearing the most amazing outfits that only she could pull off. She's also extremely intelligent, I've spoken with her about many things that she's very knowledgeable about. The only slight oddity is that she's very high energy and hardly ever stops moving, and is overenthusiastic about everything. But that would fit in with the ADHD?

Yes, we can't get out of dd2 why she didn't intervene or tell us. So she got in trouble too, and had to tidy it all up. It was totally out of character, she usually cries at the slightest thing!

i had not heard any gossip any earlier than I said. I don't have much to do with anyone generally. The grandmother and the lady opposite approached me, neither of whom I really know. The only one I approached was when I saw her walking back form her direction and thought she might know what she'd been in hospital for, knowing they were friends.

The response was (with a shrug), 'swollen throat I heard. But we don't have anything to do with them any more.' And then walked in her door.

I don't think you are being a gossip, I also wouldn't assume that the authorities are on to it. I'd trust your instincts, and inform SS, you can do it anonymously if you prefer.

Sorry if this cross posts as I have read it a few times but my first thought was munchausens/munchausens by proxy. If you haven't heard of it, it is a psychiatric disorder where someone fakes illness or psychological trauma (like a miscarriage) for attention, sympathy or reassurance. The 'by proxy' part is where she uses her daughter to do this.

It may be worth making an anonymous referral to social services. This isn't spiteful and more than likely it wont' result in her losing her daughter however it will get her the help she needs if this is the case.

You can be pretty and weird can't you? In my experience the pretty, thin Mum is never the most popular amongst the other mums in the village? can't think why.

Why don't you speak to the teacher if you're concerned. A visit from social services, if it's unnecessary could actually make things worse if the child or mother have behavioural challenges. The teacher would surely be better equipped to asses this and as he/she comes from a place of authority, they can refer things to Ss as a matter of procedure rather than as a concerned 'friend'. I'm sure that would be less upsetting whatever the outcome and ultimately the outcome you want is for the woman and her dd to be happy and healthy and get any support that they may need, right?

I would still query the behaviour of your dd just sitting there while some lone trashes her belongings?

I am querying her behaviour, but drawing a blank on that front. I have no idea at all why she wasn't upset about it.

Nice op very nice.

MBPS diagnosed by the village grapevine.

Do you think for a second that if this child is repeatedly in hospital that the Dr's don't know she's there or the school, and why the actual fuck do you think her medical information is anything at all to do with you, are you medically qualified do you think you can see something the hospital can not see?

If you don't want to call SS, is there someone you would feel comfortable talking to at the school? An SEN coordinator? You can ask at the reception if you could have 10 mins after school to chat to them. Their name will be on the school website.

It would all be treated in confidence. They would listen to you without poo pooing your worries. In school staff are grateful for a 'heads up' about a pupil, if it's being done seriously, with care and thought, as it would be with you. You won't get follow up info, but you'll know you have raised the issue with someone.

How often have we heard posts saying 'someone must have known but it was never reported', on threads about children on the news in recent months? :(

No

But does that justify turning my back entirely? We often hear of parents managing to manipulate the authorities by appearing so together and normal.

Don't flame. I am worried about a lovely little girl.

That was to SRP

sockreturningpixie I said it was a first thought, as in a knee jerk reaction, NOT a diagnosis. It is impossible to make a diagnosis without speaking to the person involved, even for a medical professional.
It is something that is very easily missed too, like a lot of mental health disorders.
The OP sees a lot more of this woman and her child than doctors do and the doctors seeing the child aren't necessarily overly qualified in adult mental health.

Someone being concerned is not necessarily being malicious or being a gossip. It is possible to be worried about a child's welfare without there being a malicious ulterior motive.

I'm unsure what you would say to social services or to the school. School will already be aware of the absences (in fact they will probably know more about them than you do). Likewise, since there have been so many hospital admissions then anything suspicious will have been flagged to social services.

Yes, multi-agency intervention does sometimes mean that important issues are missed but you have no knowledge or information to give them except hearsay and gossip that every hospital admission is preceded by some crisis.

It may be all innocent, but I would report to SS.

Nasty little gossip is not ok, no matter why.

If you think you have spotted a case of MSBP/FI then call Children's services don't hang around the streets gossiping.

But be prepare to apologise if your wrong

This is why I'm dithering. Of course the school know she's absent, of course the hospital know she's been in. And maybe she's just ill a lot.

But I'm worried that something could be causing all the illness. I'm probably massively wrong, but what if I'm not?

Also children aren't generally admitted to hospital unless something is actually wrong. If the child is frequently injured or frequently poorly to the point of ending up in hospital, it will have been flagged. The most I would do would be to have a quiet word with the teacher.

I can tell you're worried and I have no idea why you've had the reaction you have. MN can be weird sometimes

Why don't you have a chat with your local health visitor? If you live in a village, you'll have the same one. Your girls are a bit too old for one in the normal way of things but she'll doubtless know who you're talking about and will be plugged in to the local infrastructure, if you see what I mean.

From what I understand though it was another woman gossiping though, not the OP.

Posting on here isn't gossip as it's totally anonymous, the OP wants advice nothing else.

Nurse,

My post was to the op not to you. I hadn't even seen yours.

Apologies for using 'though' twice in that sentence!