To be concerned about this girl

[SEmyarse]

Over summer last year dd2 (7) made friends with a girl who it turns out lived round in the next road. She is 8, but a summer birthday so 2 years ahead at school.

They got on great, and I really liked the mum. It became apparent quite quickly though that she is very overenthusiastic about the friendship, and would try and organise the girls to play together every day, and would try and pop in herself and stay for quite a while chatting. This was fine sometimes, and I enjoyed her company, but it was too much for me. I work full time so she would more often arrive while dh was here and hang around him chatting for an hour or more while he was trying to do stuff. He said it made him feel uncomfortable, but it was quite difficult to reign in, especially when we had a childcare crisis and she looked after both dds while we were both at work, which we were very grateful for. The only issue I have with her care is that she seems to massively overfeed them.

I know she's from a troubled background, which I haven't delved into, but during conversations she's mentioned growing up in care, having ADHD and having a support worker. The girl has also mentioned the support worker, and says it's because their house is too messy. I have to admit to being intrigued about her being in care because she seems extremely close to her parents, but I've not asked the reasons and it could be anything.

Over time her beautifully behaved daughter started behaving worse when at our house. i figured she just felt more comfortable with us at first, so she would be cheeky etc, but gradually escalated to her deliberately breaking things. She also got more and more clingy to dh, wanting to hug him all the time, which again he felt uncomfortable with.

We tried to step back a bit, because it was all getting too much. And then her daughter got ill anyway so we didn't see her as much. I was surprised to discover that she ended up in hospital with what had started as a stomach bug since she seems a very robust child. After the hospital trip we tried to maintain occasional contact, but it quickly escalated and she would turn up at our door up to 3 times a day. Dh also ended up being roped into various transport arrangements since she doesn't drive, and he's not very good at saying no.

Again, we tried to gently reduce things, again the daughter was ill, dh drove them to various appointments and the chemist's to get antibiotics, and then she asked us to have her that evening, and asked me to administer the ABs. She told me to give double the dosage written on the bottle, which I wasn't happy to do. I read the leaflet inside, which did say that sometimes double doses could be given if directed by a doctor, but it didn't say that on the bottle so I only gave her one, and mum said she'd give her another when she got back.

There's also been a bit of a to-do over opticians. She kept going on and on about dd2's glasses, how great she looked in them. And then suddenly her daughter needed glasses, and help with lifts to an optician's in a very awkward place. And the glasses repeatedly got broken, and tales of it costing a fortune to mend so now she's not wearing glasses again.

Just before christmas dh had the girls again, and they were being a pain in the neck so he told them to go and play in the bedroom. He heard a lot of noise but thought they were just playing. 20 mins later he went upstairs to find dd2 on her bed drawing and the other girl completely trashing everything, deliberately snapping and jumping on stuff. So he took her home and told her mum that BOTH girls had been naughty.

That was the last we saw of them. We're more than happy for the girls to play together sometimes, but don't want to instigate contact since it always gets out of control.

I bumped into the grandmother who works in co-op (who I didn't recognise, but dd2 did) who said that the girl had been in hospital again over christmas. I asked another neighbour who knows them, who said they'd heard she was in for a 'swollen throat', but was home now.

Then another lady who used to be friends with them sought me out at school to ask if we'd fallen out with her since she'd heard that the girl was in hospital again. She said she knows from experience that this means that she's fallen out with someone again. i explained what had happened and she related almost exactly the same kind of things had happened to her, and always culminated in the daughter being seriously ill. She said 'next thing, you'll hear that she's pregnant. She's been pregnant and miscarried 10 times since I've known her, and always after a drama.' I went home and dh walked in the door and said 'You'll never guess what! I've just seen someone in the village, who told me B is pregnant'.

So her behaviour definitely seems to follow a pattern. and the daughter still isn't back at school over 2 weeks after coming out of hospital (not long I know, but I'm confused by all the frequent hospital visits.) Does all this stuff sound worrying? Do I need to do something? I'm just worried that every time there's a drama the girl ends up in hospital. That's too coincidental right?

My gossiping consisted of being approached by 2 people I don't know (including the grandmother) who impressed info on me, and asking someone how the girl was and why she'd been in hospital, out of concern.

Yep, that makes me a nasty gossip doesn't it?

People saying report to SS, what are you suggesting the OP says?

She's heard that the child is in hospital a lot, the child is off school which the LEA will probably be looking into (fines etc) the mother 'has alot of energy', she has heard that hospital visits tend to be preceded with stress.

So she's odd, she doesn't have a lot of support (as she seemed to rely on the OP) and her dd doesn't always behave brilliantly and craves affection from a father figure.

This describes a lot of parents I know!

The op engaging in conversation about someone else's medical matters in a none professional context is gossip.and I'm not on about posting on a semi anon forum.

Real life chatting to others where you live about the amount of admissions and other stuff like that is very very harmful

The other people told ME that stuff. I hadn't made a connection with behaviour until the most recent one. I didn't even know she'd been in hospital until the grandmother told me.

How does your dh know that she is pregnant again?

I couldn't remember when I first wrote this who told him, but I now remember it was our next door neighbour, so not actually in the village. I didn't know that they knew her tbh, apart from the fact that she's always on our doorstep.

When I said gossip I meant that it is clear others in the village are gossiping about this woman to the op. She was concerned already following her own experience with the family. I'm sure she would not get involved in talking about someone maliciously for no reason. I think she is still right to be concerned.

As someone suggested earlier my initial thought was Muncshausens(sp)

I don't think you are being a gossip, concern and gossip are entirely different things. I'd be very tempted to report to either the school or SS. It does sound very sad, they are obviously very troubled and lonely

Just describe to SS what you have been told. SS will check with the hospital if there is any possibility the DD's illnesses could be caused by the mother. If not, no further action will be taken.

I'm thinking OP that certain people don't like her, that she provides entertainment via gossip and that you and dh letting her in and helping her out goes against what they think about her. It's not so much you gossiping as them wanting you to gossip.

If you really do have the best intentions then try to consider her point of view. Perhaps her strange energy is nerves as she knows that she is being discussed? What if she isn't doing anything wrong. She's just a pretty single mum who can't drive and so is fairly isolated living in a village. Her daughter misbehaves sometimes and is often poorly. And everyone likes to gossip about her. Be a good person and a good example. Speak to the teacher if you're concerned and next time someone decides to try and turn you against her too, just say that you think she's lovely and leave it at that.

Like OP said, these people came to her and told her things, other than putting her hands over her ears and running away there probably wasn't much she could of done other than stand there listening.

thatisall If I were in that situation I would stress that it is a concern not an observation of abuse, the child's behaviour has deteriorated since you have known her, the mum seems to be struggling with no support and the child is in hospital a lot. Children slip through the net so easily because people think children's welfare is none of their business or because they have a misconception of the role of social services, they aren't evil child snatchers, they won't wade in and take the girl away, that's a last resort in very serious cases but they CAN direct the mum towards services that she may not have been aware of that can help and support her whether she has a mental health condition or other problems, it may make hers and her daughters lives a whole lot better. Obviously I don't know the woman and am basing my opinion on a few paragraphs so could be completely wrong but based on this, that is what I would do.

If it would make you feel better then speak to the school but they are going to say they know about the absences and the hospital admissions, and they're going to ask why you're worried that something could be causing all the illnesses and that, I think, is where it falls down because the only reason you're questioning what is causing all the illnesses is because of the 'pattern' mentioned by someone else.

So, before you go to anyone with your concerns, you actually need to pinpoint why you have that concern. (I'm not flaming, I am trying to help you work this out before/if you speak to someone).

SEmyarse I'd ask to get this thread moved out of AIBU, you are going to get a lot of very unhelpful posts. Maybe Chat would be better?

You aren't a gossip- you are concerned about a child's welfare. The fact there is repeated patterns of behaviour here, after failings out, would really worry me. I'd phone NCPCC and ask for advice or talk to the HT at your school.

My first thought was munchausen by proxy too. Also i dont think it sounds like you are gossiping but rather several (many) incidents adding up to a bigger picture that is concerning. The clinginess to your dh would concern me too.

Just an example but my niece has ADHD. She adores my dh and even though she has a dad, she seems to fixate on him sometimes. I think she just likes his temperament and the fact that he's so massive so gives brilliant hugs. She's difficult sometimes and sometimes very unexpectedly but other times and certainly when she first meets people, she is impeccably well mannered. My sis doesn't drive and when her dp is away she struggles. My niece for whatever reason picks up every big going and as she is super energetic, she's always bumping things. My sis has her family for support so if anyone started gossiping about her they'd be put in their place.

If she didn't have that support and lived in a village rather than a city, my sis may be in this lady's position. If SS were to contact my sis she'd be distraught, whereas she has a very good relationship with school as she has lots of meetings about my niece's behaviour and progress. I think school is the way to go. SS doesn't only cause upset when they 'snatch children'. I'm all for social responsibility but part of that includes not jumping to conclusions and knowing where is the most appropriate place to raise concerns.

Ring SS if you like- but they will already be aware that the mother has ADHD and that the child leads a chaotic life.

Why else do you think they're already paying for a support worker?

That's a really good point thatisall and in some cases would be better than SS, it really would depend on how efficient the school are though. It may be that this lady's daughter has ADHD like your niece and the school could support her with this and help her get a diagnosis so she is helped out of school too. On the other hand some schools are really useless and just push things like this under the carpet, they have no obligation whereas social services have to follow up every referral. It's a difficult one.

It really is impossible to tell, I just think the OP should tell somebody as whatever the cause could be the lady does sound like she needs support.

Why are so many posters saying don't do anything because probably the issue is already known to SS. Or the school more than likely already knows. Or that the hospital has probably flagged this up already.

What possible harm could it do for the OP to mention her concerns to someone? None IMO.

What possible good could it do? Well, that's obvious.

Just a few months ago there were threads and threads about how communities have broken down, no one talks to anyone else, everyone is more worried about being seen as a busy body than reporting their concerns about a child. That it could take just one person speaking up to help a situation deteriorating.

Here is someone concerned, and so many posters are calling her an evil gossip, and saying she should keep her worries to herself. And that the relevant professionals probably already know about the girl. i don't understand it.

I agree with you fluffiy.

I'm sure we could write a list of children who have died because, although the authorities were involved, things weren't taken seriously enough.

The more reports from concerned people, the better IMO.

think you are right to be worried and not at all bring bitchy or gossipy. If I was you I would speak to maybe school nurse/keyworker. Maybe they just need extra support at the moment

You don't know that the girl has been in hospital though, do you? You've just been told that she was. I think it is worth conveying your concerns to the school.

That is true Angela. A friend who was physically abused as a child used to be kept off school ill with viruses, in reality was being kept off until bruises healed.

I would go to talk to the school and see what they say, I wouldn't go straight to SS (who may be already aware). I would make sure that they log your concerns and that he school come back to you, not just an informal chat to the mother.

Ignore the people on here bitching about the gossip, if someone comes to you with information it isn't gossiping. I also don't think that you are trying to diagnose anything, that came from the responses. Do however continue not to gossip as it sounds like enough of that is going on.

Personally I would call SS, it sounds as though your friend has mh issues and they may not have observed how bad it is. I'd also get some advice from them about maintaining a relationship with the dd/friend on your terms, i.e. Making it clear there's no unannounced turning up, her dd goes home if any bad behaviour.

I would report your concerns to the school's designated safeguarding person first, if you don't feel comfortable going straight to SS.

You’ll either be contributing a further piece to a pre-existing jigsaw puzzle, which can only help, or alerting a safeguarding specialist as to your concerns – either way your disclosure will be kept confidential. You probably already know it’s not your responsibility to investigate, but you really do need to tell someone about your concerns.

I don’t think you can assume everyone involved with this family will have picked up on all the issues and what you have is first-hand experience of some of both the little girl’s and mother’s behaviours. Don’t get all tied up with the gossip crap – you’re not gossiping, you’re voicing a valid concern based on your experiences with the family – the pregnancy thing is (as you say) neither here nor there.

As previous posters have said – it’s not about getting them into trouble, it’s about getting them help and support (mum might need more than she’s letting on to her key worker because she’s scared they’ll say she’s not coping/terrified that they will take daughter into care etc? Despite how many times we tell families SS aren’t there to take their kids off them, it’s still the automatic default assumption for many).

Of course, your concerns could be completely “off”, but then again they might not be and it's everyone's duty (imho) to report any concerns regarding children (or indeed vulnerable adults) to the relevant authorities.

And just a word of caution to some of the posters here ... as a child I was in and out of hospital – to and fro at the doctors – absent from school a LOT of the year etc… with tonsillitis. I was a neglected child (by what she didn’t do, not what she did) and often wasn’t given the proper care, but my mum never faked an illness with me. So, just be careful with those assumptions gals.