To think that if we are not going to pay benefits to foreigners because they haven't contributed

[IceBeing]

then we should also not pay benefits to people born in the UK that haven't contributed?

Like my grandmother...she's never paid any tax (married early when married women weren't expected to work). Or my cousins who have not been able to find work since leaving school. Or many of the locals around here who have not had work in their family for three generations now. Or my friend's brother with Downs Syndrome who has never worked.

Alternatively..and this might be crazy....maybe the point of benefits is to support people who can't support themselves, whatever the reason, irrespective of whether or not they have been able to in the past and also irrespective of where they or they parents happen to have been born.

[cory]

Do we have any statistics as to how many foreigners actually do manage to claim benefits straight after arriving in this country? I didn't think it was all that easy.

[MomsStiffler]

If, as many people seem to believe, it's rare for "foreigners" to come here & claim benefits then surely new rules won't actually affect many, if any?

Any that don't have work and can't claim will have to leave, but it'll hardly be an exodus of epic proportions based on the above will it?

As for claiming child benefit. If the children live in this country with the parent permanently, then OK. If they're living in the original country with a parent, spouse, family etc, surely they'll be receiving benefits from their own government over there?

[Piscivorus]

I know you can't believe everything you see or read but haven't several documentaries and articles shown that it is quite easy for new arrivals to get fake documentation to enable them to claim?

I still can't decide if we should be worried about immigration or not. I am damned certain that we should be worried about Cameron and his ilk running the country.

[softlysoftly]

You mean the ones paying a shed load in charity?

How about we just make the money we already take work better ey?

So NO to no benefits

And

NO to taxing the well off until they just get utterly fucked off with it all

This approach of Labour spend spend spend "hate the rich".

Or Torys cut cut cut "no hate the poor" has got us precisely nowhere so far.

[MomsStiffler]

I say "yes" to British benefits for Britons. Germans can have German benefits and so on.

Maybe pulling up the drawbridge for a few years & counting what's left in the kitty is what we need....

[charitymum]

Actually - on average - rich pay lot less that those on much less money both in % per earnings and in real terms as a 'group'. Philanthropy on this country is very weak. Of course there are exceptions but most charity public donations comes from average or below average earners giving little and often and fundraising.

And while charity donations are welcome they are not a substitute for tax. Tax avoidance is crap. Not paying taxes is fraud. Government could address both and address deficit in welfare bill.

I'm rich. I don't mind being taxed heavily. I have more that most. I don't care if some people play the system. I'd rather people get welfare who shouldn't than one more kid in this country has to use a food bank.

[CHJR]

It preys on my mind that I'm a scrounging foreigner who came into this country and have been sucking off benefits ever since without working. Ok. I've been here 7 years now, but have never held a job in the UK. Because of DS2's disabilities I collect disability living allowance and various schooling benefits. And though all 3 DC are in school full-time and I am looking for a job, it is uphill work given that I've been off for 15 years.

Now, granted, DH is British and a higher-rate taxpayer, and DC are all therefore British (though born abroad). But that isn't anything that I really do myself, is it? I am, and DS2 is doomed to be, a drain on resources and a net loss to the world.

I sure understand how other people end up in this situation through no real fault of their own. And also why at some point you just give up trying to get a job and give up all hope of being able to make a dent in the world outside your own tiny circle.

[CHJR]

*Also, we didn't know when we moved here that DS2 was so disabled (though I was beginning to suspect). I just wonder what the Daily Mail and UKIP would make of me. How bad all this sounds really depends on which facts you emphasize and omit, and whether you firmly believe that MY HUSBAND'S income somehow justifies my and DS's neediness. If that works within one family can it never work in the greater family of the human race? Yet I well understand that sometimes it's just too expensive. As I say, DH is a higher-rate taxpayer (something I never foresaw when we married, and attribute in great part to sheer damn luck), yet we find it very, very costly having even one disabled child. As a society, I see that we cannot afford to have too high a proportion of dependents to workers.

[lifehasafunnywayofhelpinguout]

To be honest I think it's terrible that poor people who may have came here to seek refuge are to be denied benefits. These people need help and support. As a U.K National. I have to say I feel proud that they have chosen that U.K as their new adopted home. Also what about their children? Why should they be left to starve.
In regards to people here who have never contributed well we don't know their reasons for never being in work do we, so I don't think it's fair to say just because a person has not contributed then they should go with out. After all denying people benefits could lead to crime because people will do anything to survive. The welfare state is there for the needy. xxx