To think that if we are not going to pay benefits to foreigners because they haven't contributed

[IceBeing]

then we should also not pay benefits to people born in the UK that haven't contributed?

Like my grandmother...she's never paid any tax (married early when married women weren't expected to work). Or my cousins who have not been able to find work since leaving school. Or many of the locals around here who have not had work in their family for three generations now. Or my friend's brother with Downs Syndrome who has never worked.

Alternatively..and this might be crazy....maybe the point of benefits is to support people who can't support themselves, whatever the reason, irrespective of whether or not they have been able to in the past and also irrespective of where they or they parents happen to have been born.

[Dawndonnaagain]

Are you for real, Suzanne?
Are you really suggesting that those unable to access education, the job market, society, those poor sods living on the periphery should also be denied the basics upon which to live.
Go brush up on your Edward Bond, dear.

[capsium]

Hmm. I cannot see how barring people from benefits will work, practically speaking. Not without some huge social adjustments, anyway.

Not allowed a school place will mean all the children will be left to be home educated, whether their parents are capable of this or not. No health care will result in deaths, spread of infectious diseases perhaps, more burden upon the State to properly dispose of the bodies or would you make them do that themselves.........?

[Whiskwarrior]

I was given this wonderful line to use (after being more or less called a chav on another thread):

Anyone who uses the word chav as an insult is a wanker

It's lazy stereotyping and shows a brain the size of pea.

As you were.

PS - my kids have traditional names - I got labelled chav because my kids like character clothing - amazing, non?

[Objection]

If we give money to be just because they have come to the country we are soon to be suffering from a massive population increase saturated with people who are not contributing

[YoureBeingASillyBilly]

I love these threads. Theyre a fantastic way of drawing out the thick as fuck so we can all see who they are for future reference.

[dozeydoris]

How do you check the verity of someone claiming for DCs in another country. Perhaps someone who has moved areas several times in the last 10 years. Is a birth certificate all that's required

We always have these discussion without the relevant info.

Every so often someone, politician, journalist, poster, says that we pay more than any other EU country - is this true? Goodness knows. So it's pointless having these discussion without the true information.

[BraveMerida]

Who's thick as fuck depends on who you disagree with though surely.

[BatmanLovesRobins]

The main reason I disagree with benefits being sent out of the country is that that money no longer is in our system, as it were. Imagine two people who each receives £100 in child benefit:

Person A, who has a family in their country of origin, sends the money there to benefit their child

Person B, who has children in this country, spends the money in the local newsagent /at M&S / on library fines, whatever.

However, if someone has the gumption to leave their country and come here to get a job and support their family so they can have better lives, I can't really be against that.

[3asAbird]

I dont really get this thread?

I think theres time delay immigrts have to be in the country in order to claim benefits.

Most come overe here ie polish short term and very hardworkig they do pay taxes.

The government cant really control eu immigration.
They I think have put strsucter controls in inetrnational immigration.

If someones truly foreighn refugee its only right thet get some kind of help until they on their feet.

I think what clouds peoples minds is way media portrays immigration.

sometimes middle eastern refugees have to go through several countries to get to uk we not exactly their first country of safety why so many risk calais and getting in illegally and dont seek asylum in france.

still would rather be like us than australia.

I have heard some send child benefit home to their families not sure how true that is. if parent lives work in uk and child back home in own country if they can claim cb or if its just a myth but then paying winter fuel for ex pats in spain seems just as mad.

Also not sure how we compare to other eu countries.

can a british person live in another country in eu gets lots benefits.
womder why uk so attractive as i find it such a hard expensive country at times and im bristish and quite racist in some areas.

we do have nhs over here which guess is attractive if you in poor health and come from country where healthcares costly but again they want to stop nhs tourism and charge immigrants for treatment now as was in the news.

In truth hard to know whats true and whats rubbsh as media always portray immigration in such negative way but i dont live in an area where the whole makeup of areas changed but can understand why people who live in those areas feel negative about immigrants

[RestingActress]

Batman - to take your scenario further

Person A - their family cost the country £100 in CB

Person B - their family cost the country £100 in CB, plus NHS costs, plus education costs, as a minimum

[IceBeing]

dozey well I could not possibly agree more with that! There never seem to be any facts at all.

Of course that is deliberate. If people could actually see how little we spend on benefits of even a slightly greyish dubious nature and compare it directly to say the amount of tax starbucks avoids in a year they would realise who the actual bad guys are.

Like the whole NHS thing. The amount spent in the NHS treating people for free who are technically not entitled is so small you could find it down the back of Osbornes sofa!

[JamNan]

Even if someone does not pay income tax they still pay VAT, Council Tax, fuel duty, etc. Poor people pay a higher proportion of their income than richer people for example 20 per cent of £100 per week is a larger proportion than 20 per cent of £1000 per week.

All the people I know who came here from abroad work, pay tax and are married to Brits. It's a crap Daily Fail stereotype which ID-S, that Cunt Clegg and all the rest of the government perpetuate - it's a myth and you believe it! YABU.

Perhaps if this government, instead of vilifying the poor and disabled, concentrated on the extremely rich foreigners who have the privilege to live in this country but do not pay tax, and made them pay their fair share of tax then we would be a more equal society.

I'll get me goat coat! FFS!

[BraveMerida]

Iceberg, that's rather hypocritical isn't it? On the one hand agreeing there are no facts, and then stating that the amount spent on NHs on those not entitled is so small it can be found on the back of George osbourne's sofa!

[Rosa]

bravemerida then there are Uk citizens - non residents who have paid over 25 yrs of contributions into the UK system and have had little or nothing back.( 12 mths of CB) They then live in Europe and get a big fat zero back. They might get a pension if they are lucky ..... So it does work both ways a bit , but not much, as people like me are in the minority .
I am a non resident citizen who has paid but tough luck really .....( and am one of the few who declared i was living abroad) How many don't and continue to claim????

[ConferencePear]

I wonder if anyone here knows what benefits are available in other countries ? Supposing I decided to go to France, for example, to seek employment, would I be entitled to jobseekers allowance and housing benefit while I looked ?

Some facts would help us come to a fair decision.

Maybe someone has been able to find a comparisons website which I haven't.

[3asAbird]

The problem is they not very good at collating?

they dont seem to know whos in country
how long they staying
if tey have dependents.
whos claiming housing but working.

I think i read the birthrates higher for foreig born mothers than uk born but if this is entirly true and not something paper made up who knows.

The biggest place i can think of wealthy foreigners would be london russions and knsington is actually constituency of france which shocked me a bit.

But guess they use less services maybe private healthcare, private schools ect.

would be good to have some facts though how we compare to other eu countries as something about uk must be attractive as why here and not other eu countries?

[FanFuckingTastic]

I think people should walk a mile in someone's shoes before they get to judge their situation. And the word chav should be banned. And people talking about immigrants, benefits or chavs in this way should have to do 200 hours community service and be taught about the proper facts on different types of benefits, immigrants and about prejudice/discrimination.

People forming an opinion based solely on Channel 4 programs should be banned. This recent load of benefit bashing is almost directly related to what's been on the telly, and I've had long term disabled friends in absolute tears after people started harping on about things they can't possibly understand.

[FanFuckingTastic]

We got child benefit in Germany, so it's not solely Britain that gives people benefits btw.

[IceBeing]

brave well when the big OMG we pay for people on the NHS who aren't ENTITLED hand wringing happened...eventually Osbourne came up with a number...I think it was a few million. It was put to him that the scheme with the cards he was proposing was protected to cost at least 10 times that and he blithered for a while....it was classic.

So although I doubt he knew the real number and I certainly can't remember it - it was definitely stupidly small and the whole Foreigners getting NHs treatment stunt was indeed a stunt.

[Whiskwarrior]

FanFuckingTastic - I think I love you!

[perplexedpirate]

I could say much about this, but I just have to say can we all please FUCK OFF CALLING PEOPLE CHAVS!
It's disgusting, ignorant and bigoted and anyone who uses that fucking awful word is a cuntish snob of the highest order.

Thanks. Feel better now.

[IceBeing]

Fan I got enraged listening to radio 4. A solid half hour of arguing of the best way to stop 'people who haven't contributed to the economy from getting benefits' and it made my blood boil because it was assumed that foreigners are even coming here for that purpose which doesn't seem to be true, and that having made a contribution was in any sense a valid thing to use to decide who gets benefits when it clearly isnt.

Anyway...

[Dawndonnaagain]

Child benefit is also available for UK citizens living and working in France.

[FanFuckingTastic]

Well, I am just newly single WhiskWarrior, so lets take things slowly and see what happens, eh.

[FanFuckingTastic]

I was enraged slightly further down than the first post OP.