Do you know anyone in real life who votes for UKIP?

[puddingsforsandy]

And if so, do you judge them?

If you're a UKIP supporter yourself, are you happy to declare it in public/at work?

I haven't yet (well I think!) meet anyone who votes for this party. Someone from FB linked something from UKIP FB page disagreeing with it. This lead me to their page. The supporters of this party come across as thick (going by the FB page)

I can't believe this is the same party that was lead by that talk show host. Silk something.

Anyway that's my opinion but my questions above still stand.
Thanks.

I think I have posted valid reasons WooWoo

I know one person who votes UKIP.

He was the one who called me a 'fucking Polish slag' (and later he varied with Polish slut/bitch/etc; and a few messages telling me to get out of the UK etc;). I'm not even Polish (am Icelandic). Charming man...

Ooh I met an Icelandic person once. She wasn't very nice at all but unlike some of the posts on this thread I'm not going to generalise. I am sure you are very nice Islenka

Ok so in the interval since my last post I have actually canvassed opinion of other parents living in the situation.

So far not one of them is in favour of congregate communities.

Will let you know if anyone comes forward that is.

I don't claim to speak for all in my situation by the way - but so far it's everyone I've asked.

Interesting though how it's always the same old people who deride me for benefits, call my kids a waste of resources etc.

Slight bridge dwelling behaviour.

These posters have less empathy than my children have in their little fingers. And they have ASD.

Actually, I have reduced contact with my schoolfriend, my youngest's Godmother, over her support for UKIP: my boys are disabled, if she supports UKIP she cannot value them.

As for the communities- no. Some of you will know my background, I have low level ASD myself, and 3 boys with what now we know is a genetic form of autism, I also worked as a nurse / carer before having a family and am now weeks away from my MA in Autism: I consider myself qualified to speak on this with some knowledge. Would I accept these? No, I worked in a terrible nursing home for about a week when I was 23 (AKA long enough to cotton on...and then the authorities came in and prosecuted the owners a year later as things must have got far worse, either that or as a newbie they shielded me), and I would NEVER wish that on my worst enemy! Disabled people deserve the most independence they can have, and a single community approach to caring will never deliver that. Also, I worked in the last of the Victorian psych hospitals as they began to be closed down, alongside those whose capabilities SHOULD have led to lives that include families of their own and employment, I comforted those destroyed people as the only home they eve knew was taken from them as it was found to be too expensive to provide community care; it IS too expensive to provide quality care, home based Carers DO provide quality care at a far cheaper level. The model will have two options- deliver inhumane, low quality care or close down and repeat the awful scenarios I witnessed. Finally, if the adults and children who have disabilities are headed that way whatever, what motivation is there for people to bother with education, or the chances that might lead to independence? Harry has developed already far above the level we expected, but only with input, and many children follow that path. And on a more emotive level- how would ANYONE feel if they were told their relatives, their belvoed children (even if in the future as adults) would be consigned to these places? Surely even the least paranoid person will imagine concentration camps, and how can we predict what political ends will arise in the future? I have already been told my children belong in camps, or should be euthanised: what on earth would possess ANYONE to think i'd let anyone near my boys in this way?

if it happens? We will pack up our growing business and take it abroad, with our family: that simple. Today was the potentially biggest day of our trading year and we are at maximum, so I am feeling optimistic that we will be employing people and paying mega taxes within a few years now. When I graduate in May I hope to start looking for work, and I have an fairly impressive CV- these taxes can go anywhere frankly but not to a state that would do this to my loved ones.

And these benefits people begrudge?

They were what enabled DH to start studying to set up the business after a redundancy.

Yep, money down the drain alright. Or not, as the case may be.

And in my opinion, anyone who thinks they know where my family and clients should be 'kept' can take what's left of their Christmas and shove it where the sun don't shine.

Valid reasons for what exactly Dawn?

You have said you don't like the idea of congregate communities and that's fine and I respect your opinion, but I haven't seen anything that definitively proves that congregate communities are a bad idea for those that want to use them.

You may distrust UKIP because of the personal opinions of some of their members, but Im pretty certain I could find beef with the personal opinions of members of every political party. And no party is entirely up front and honest, that's why we look at party policy and pretty much have to decide to vote between the best of a bad bunch.

Even if UKIP does somehow win a majority at the next general election, I don't believe that we are ever going to end up with a situation where people with learning disabilities are forcibly removed from their families and made to live in asylums. It's just not going to happen.

But if by re examining congregate communities means that there will be more available, that doesn't seem like such a bad thing.

I'm not saying that because I'm a nasty evil person that wants to never have to bump into a person with LDs when I go into town, I'm saying it because people who do have children with LDs complain that they don't get enough support, because one family I know has fought for years to get their child who has severe autism into a residential unit that can actually care for him because they were falling to pieces unable to cope with him at home, and because now that he does have his place, his family have to travel for hours to see him. And because the very limited experience I have of a community for people with LDs was a positive one and it was a place that clearly benefitted it's residents and service users.

My Dad stood as a UKIP councillor in the May elections too

Is there some sort of support group I can join?

Some extraordinarily rude posts here that do little to articulate any form of reasoned argument.

Can somebody please link to UKIP policy about the disabled and about congregate communities please. I can't find anything on their website. I would very much like to know where this information is coming from in order to make a reasoned assessment and to form a reasonable opinion.

I am never inclined to take too seriously the opinions of those who troll call and tell others to piss off. I believe it breaks guidelines yet the same people have the cheek to be extraordinarily rude to others.

Woowoo I assume that as I have stated my qualifications, you will give them credit? I shouldn't have to do that of course, but I know how MMN works.

The key factor is choice: if there was a nice villagey community available as I became too aged to care for my most severely affected child, I would consider it. However he is capable of supported living which is FAR preferable, but which authority would fund it if there was a UKIP style place available? Annd virtually nobody can self fund care like this, it's far more expensive than anyone could imagine.

But compulsory is ALWAYS wrong. Just as there is no one model of school that suits all children, there is no one model that suits all adults with SN.

However I must remind myself this is UKIP, a party tearing itself apart over Syria. That Farrage is so bright that when i opposed his hatred for disability equality when he came on here, dismissed me as having no idea what things are like for the rural people of the UK- without bothering to check where I am from (Somerset, moved to S E Wales!).

That most people in the UK have a heart, and realise that the measure of humanity is how we treat our most vulnerable.

As I said, Woowoo my autistic children will go on to be productive members of society. My ds is getting firsts at university. Okay, we have to guide him through his meal, step by step every evening, he needs an escort on the bus to lectures, but the fact is, that he will be able to work at an extremely high level, with the right support.
There are people who need other care, but the UKIP manifesto, and the idiots that have made statements do not differentiate between, for example Kanner Autism and Asperger Syndrome. The myriad types of Cerebral Palsy are not addressed, the fact is that people with disabilities are as many and varied intellectually and physically as the rest of the world.

NTW I don't know about this policy but IIRC it was removed along with their description of all claimants as scroungers from their website some time back.

No coherent arguments? No? Not the overall cost, the experiences of the people I worked with, the homogenisation of care being inapppropriate for a group that has far too much variation in need?

At teh extreme, the very worst place for a very severely autistic person is a community: the best ones I know of provide a curriculum that means some of their clients will choose to live their lives at 3am so they never make contact with anyone but keyworkers anns they hate it so much.

Exactly DawnDonna

I have low level ASD; I have a family, we are employed, I am post grad educated.
But where do you stop? My husband functions well but has low level MH needs (cared for by medication alone), and carries the gene that caused our disabilities; 2 of my boys will definitely work, the other I could not answer for right now, but as he has 3 siblings it is likely that care nees will remain in house to at least a large level. Luckily I was not an older mum, and whilst there are so many things we will never know about the future, longevity is common in my family and my husband's, and not so common in the more severe ASD community: the's a fair chance I will outlive him, statistically. ASD doesn't kill, but safety issues, inability to express the signs of severe illness and restricted diets etc can.

My comments were not directed at you peachyplum. But do you really think what is happening now is working. Perhaps it's a matter of degree but I know two families who are absolutely exhausted with children with severe needs who have had massive difficulties arranging adequate care outside the home.

this is where the UKIP policy used to be, if anyone doubts my vanishing policy comment.

A well known blog on the matter exists here though it's hardly something I would refer to in my research work.

But happily there is also [disabilitynewsservice.com/2013/05/ukip-set-for-radical-change-on-disability/

And just to show their lack of sense on these matters, look at the idea for all HB claimants to do workfare: in some areas most HB claimants are employed but low paid.

JanineStBubbins No, it's not. You seem to be clutching at straws and throwing insults as opposed to understanding the meaning of the words you're reading. Unless of course you're being racist and assuming all French people are white? Are you racist?

Yes it was Doris, that's why the original comment was deleted.

Ah, I've just seen MNHQ deleted it. Seems like they are 'clutching at straws' as well. Disgusting post, Doris. 'Judeo-Christian' heritage - FFS.

pinsandnoodles perhaps we should start a support group. my dh is out delivering UKIP leaflets as I type this...

NearThe

No, but it varies hugely- some places are far better than others. There are councils I know that make a far better job of care and / or education than others; my own is getting there with education- one of my sons is falling through a gap but they ae trying to help, and indeed by utilising the Base model, saving money on places that use a lot of high provision SN schools.

So we should be learning from the councils that get it right, talking to service users who are often more than able to engage in discussions and feedback, and working together. If we start to look at the councils that already get it right, then we know where to go; and those councils are NOT the ones in financial straits, usually, as being proactive can save mega bucks in terms of high cost emergency placements and picking up after disastrous care failures.

Ok then, what about UKIP's plans to abolish statutory maternity, holidays and working time legislation along with minimum wage? The individual employer would be able to create their own terms. Also abolition of protection from discrimination in the workplace.

This would disproportionately affect women and minority groups and also cause a race to the bottom in terms of terms and conditions of employment.

(All the above freely available on UKIP's own website under small business.

Oh damn I forgot. Astroturfers can't diversify discussion.