Ripping live animals apart is a wonderful British tradition that should be preseved.

[ItsAWonderfulCervix]

Let's overturn the ban. After all boxing day just isn't any fun without a few dead foxes and blood and guts and stuff.

And while we're at it, don't you just love a bit of badger baiting for variety When shredding foxes gets dull.

Is there a way to know when a hunt is taking place?

I live in the countryside so a fair few happen round my way, but I never ever know about them until it happens. I would just like to be able to plan going out or walking the dog to a time when they are not on, but I can't so have been caught out a few times. It's like they just don't care about the rest of us and how their hunt effects our lives. The first I usually know is when I see all the horses and dogs etc run either at me or past. It can be quite scary, just a little consideration would be nice. Though of course why should these posh twats care about me sine the world obviously revolves around them

posh twats
you see class hatred rears its ugly head once more in this debate.
I don't know where you live, but it is really not 'posh twats' who go hunting round here AFAIK

I think you'll find that hunts aren't advertised, because if they did they would be overwhelmed by sabs and the like. As I said up thread, my local bloodhounds WHO ONLY HUNT PEOPLE get mobbed if they let on in advance.

yes it all a bit cloak and dagger these days, esp with the hunts that are not actually drag hunting, but let's not talk about those!!

we're not all posh twats, I'm just a normal sort of twat

I think our lot are very considerate when I'm not there letting the side down and are hardly allowed anywhere now anyway :(

Theodorous, it's a bit like someone starting a thread on battery farming and someone waltzing in with - 'what about all the starving/neglected pets? I'm not going to think about your chickens because you're obviously not concerned about the poor gerbils.' It's a bit ridiculous.

Fair point. I guess the point I was clumsily trying to make was that just because we don't all have the same priorities doesn't mean we don't care about animal welfare. I wish people would do more to protect non wild creatures as well. I have a dream if starting my own farm with an in house abbotior where animal rights people are paid to run, monitor and manage the production of meat with kindness. One day ....

Biscuits If you go to the Master of Foxhounds website, you should be able to put your postcode/county in the search bar and narrow down which hunts are in your area, then contact the secretaries of the hunts. I'm sure if you explain the situation and give your address they will give you a card so you can see where the hunts are meeting, as long as you promise not to give it to any sabs

For the record, I hunt and I'm just your run of the mill common twat

"I'd be less offended if they just came out and said that they enjoyed chasing and killing things because it was fun"
Me too TheSmallClanger. Luckily I used to socialise with a man who was the secretary of a hunt, and when I asked him why they don't just shoot the foxes rather than hunt them with dogs he said "Oh, that wouldn't be half as much fun".

What bugs me are the arguments for hunting, that really don't hold up to scrutiny IMO. For example that lots of businesses would go to the wall because of the ban. Why? Which businesses?
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Oh, busylizzie76, foxes do not "kill for fun", that's an outdated falacy, that I'm shocked so many seemingly educated people still regurgitate. Foxes are opportunists, so if they find an abundance of confined prey animals they do indeed kill many, take one and leave the rest. However, what they then do, if able to do so, is to return to the kill site, retrieve the carcasses one by one (they can't carry more than one chicken at a time after all!), take them back to their territory and bury them for later. It's called caching behaviour.
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"Surely the fox hunting debate ended in a ban?"
Not while some hunts ignore the ban and "accidentally" kill a fox, or while some hounds are out of control, end up in people's gardens and kill their pets.
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"choice between the dogs and a gun... shooting it is no kinder than the dogs getting it. in the high liklihood that you don't kill it its going to die slowly. Starvation or infection"
I don't agree at all. I watched my ex boyfriend squeak a fox down (making a noise like an injured rabbit) and get easily within clear shooting range. A half decent marksman could kill a fox cleanly. If not, all they'd need to do is track it with a dog then put it out of its suffering. If the fox went to ground I see no reason why it couldn't be dug out. After all, that's what they do on hunts isn't it?

I made the starving neglected pets comment.
Mainly to show how skewed the whole 'animal rights' issue is.
I live in the sticks, keep animals, know plenty of farmers and used to be involved with the Bloodhounds. I have plenty of respect for animals, wild or otherwise, but when it comes down to it, I cant get overheated about foxhunting.
Yes, there is a small issue with 'bad hunts', and yes, its fun, but there are many bigger issues which are overlooked, or underpublicized, farm animal welfare and caged pets being a couple. There's no particular big furore over those. Why? Because those issues affect the lives of everyone. Address those issues and the lives of the masses are affected, probably for the worse.
Hunting is apparently a 'class issue', it stirs up the 'common masses' and its a great way for 'animal rights' bodies to get publicity.
What actually happens is, is hypocrisy, manufactured to assuage the guilt of people guilty of far worse every day and political propaganda.

Except that, as many people have pointed out, it isn't all rich/upper class people who hunt.

Fox hunting is just an excuse for posh cunts to have a piss up. They look like such a sad bunch of twats in their silly red coats and top hats as well. The arrogance of the snotty nosed wankers is staggering.

I don't care if it's tradition, it's sick and twisted and there are far more humane ways of culling foxes than chasing them around a field until they are exhausted and then ripping them to bits.

I eat animals so I'm less sentimental than some, but I've never killed one for the sheer pleasure of it. The hunting ban was revealing in that it showed us people who couldn't stop doing so no matter what, and that they were able to because UK laws don't apply to everyone equally.

Both of those points are as important, if not more so, than the welfare of the animals.

How about we allow hunting again, but keep a register of people who get off on killing, For reference when we want to take on care staff or for applications to adopt and so on. Add it to the CRB check.

As for 'hypocrisy' what do we call the laughable excuses that people give for hunting to avoid saying it gets them excited? Surely no one believes that the only way to kill a fox involves a huge crowd of pompous inebriated men on horseback.

we don't wear red, or top hats

and if something has to be done what on earth is wrong with enjoying yourself and having fun while you do it? MN is in danger of being overrun by a bunch of fucking puritans!

Because there's something seriously warped about getting pleasure from seeing a living creature ripped to bits.

Fox hunting is just an excuse for posh cunts to have a piss up. They look like such a sad bunch of twats in their silly red coats and top hats as well. The arrogance of the snotty nosed wankers is staggering
Aaand that's my point entirely!

Well, it's inaccurate. Maybe she'll learn something from reading the thread. Apparently people of all 'classes' get enjoyment from watching an animal being torn apart. So I guess being sick and twisted has no class boundaries...

To be clear, the reason for the mounted field is to pay subscriptions or cap in order to fund the hounds. Originally farmers and land owners allow the hunt across their land to catch foxes and people pay to follow and have the chance to ride across land they would not normally be allowed on. Reasons for following can vary from enjoying the ride in the country, schooling a young/novice horse or rider (nothing better than hunting for a horse or rider's education IMO) or simply wanting to follow the hunt up close. You can also follow on foot. What followers pay varies between £100-1500/year subscription to follow the hunt, depending on what part of the country they're in.

The reason for the red coats (although not all wear red, some wear green or brown, for example) is to distinguish hunt staff from the field. It makes them easier to see across miles of land and if there is a problem, they are easily distinguishable as someone to go to. Most of the things you see will have a basis in practicality. Some people still wear tops or bowlers but that pretty much went out with the invention of good hard hats dreams of being able to afford a Patey

Oh I think it's all classes. I suppose the difference was that poor people couldn't afford a horse and dogs and didn't have the leisure time that hunting for fun requires.

Oh and of course if I go outside and kill the dog that's shitting on my path I would be arrested and could even go to prison. You have to have some influence to get away with it.

People following in the field should wear black, navy or tweed, btw

Funny how when they interview these people on the news they are always so posh they make the Queen sound like someone from TOWIE...

I've heard rumours that some hunts bully and intimidate land owners into allowing hunts to take place on their land.

surely you'd kill the owner who is responsible for the dog in that scenario

I forgot how strongly some people feel about this sort of thing.

It was an example midge to make a point. In reality I would explain to the owner the dangers of not being in full control of their dog.

muffinin, that's interesting about getting permission from farmers etc. I don't have recent experience, but in the past it has seemed that the hunt went where it wanted and people objecting were just pushed aside.

i think its a piss poor argument to state that one cannot argue against fox hunting whilst other bigger animal welfare issues need sorting

it's like saying theres no point in worrying about homeless people in the uk when there are starving children in africa

you can always find a bigger/worse problem to look to, it doesn't mean it negates the original issue

foxhunting is wrong, there is no argument for it

CiderBomb Because the media in no way likes to play up to stereotypes and, of course, you should believe all rumours you hear.
There certainly is no bullying of land owners in the hunts around here, they welcome the hunt, have done for many years, and many participate themselves. I'd love to hear someone posher than the queen hunting with the farmer's hunts of the South Wales valleys