to get completely pissed off by smug 'know all' parents?

[JRmumma]

It might just be me, but I find it really irritating when people who have children when you don't, or have older children than you, talk to you as if they are the authority on being a parent, and know better than you, just because they did it first. It also has a tone of 'im better than you coz i have kids/ had kids before you did'.

My favorite example is when someone says 'you don't know what tired is until you have a child'. Really boils my piss. There are a plethora of reasons why someone might be tired in their life, not just because your baby wakes in the night or is high needs. Its this sort of attitude, that implies that all life experiences except child rearing are invalid, that i find so desperately infuriating.

Anyone else???

Oh and also, you know that they are really telling you that they are the authority on what is best for every child exactly like theirs?

Sorry, I didn't mean to come across as competitive, though actually yes. I suppose it sounds like that. "You don't know how tiring it is to have a newborn"... "well you don't know how tiring it is to have a four and a two year old who are both still up at night."

Maybe I should have said I didn't know what tired was until I had a newborn, and I didn't have a clue what exhaustion was until I had two insomniac children.

And any of you who are in the midst of broken nights, it does get better eventually, honest.

I think it's the lack-of-control-tiredness that makes the newborn days so tough. You never know what kind of night you'll have, and you never know if you'll ever sleep again. But all tiredness is rubbish, so it's not something to boast about.

The thing that annoys me is people who are pg for the first time and/or haven't had a toddler yet dishing out parenting advice. Like when someone just has a contented baby (I hear you can get those) and are telling you how to deal with your horrificly-tantrumming 3yo plus newborn...

Strangely, I hated people telling me the gender of my unborn child when pregnant. To this day I have no idea why it made me angry but it did. Probably because I was dealing with potential gender disappointment and everyone was adamant I was having that gender. As it turned out I wasn't!

My favorite example is when someone says 'you don't know what tired is until you have a child'

DD waking up a few times a night every night is nothing compared to the deep to my bones exhaustion I felt at work. No one knows how it is. so yanbu.

Have not read the thread, but yes even though both my babies are reasonably good sleepers, yes its the most tired I have been and I have worked night shifts in stressful jobs, and other stuff.

I do think some people really take comments to heart that are meant to be conversation fillers and its just something to say, usually in a jokey way....for some light banter...like most cliches.

But yes for me having babies and small children, one minuet being about to go bed, the next finding yourself in an ambulance with them, or in the middle of the night having full scale, soaking the mattress vomitting sessions hard!

TheBigJessie - like you, if I encounter parents having a hard time with their children at the supermarket, I always say something supportive - along the lines of, "It does get better - eventually they are old enough to be left at home on their own, so you can shop in peace" - with a (hopefully) comforting smile.

I well remember what hard work it is, doing the supermarket shop with small children in tow, and I hope I will never forget that - because my theory is that it is when you forget what hard work parenting can be, that you become someone who tuts at parents having a hard time in the shops - and I never want to be one of them!

I think often people are giving the advice they wish someone had told them, or in a roundabout way, asking for sympathy or understanding because they're struggling. Of course, sometimes people are being miseries/actually cruel. There might also be a bit of "I had it tough so I want everyone else too aswell".

And here endeth my amateur psychology moment of the day

I used to think this but after DD I kind of agree with the smuggers I'm afraid! I guess what's different is that there's no slack to bounce back with a child - I've been tired before when doing big stints for work etc. and getting little sleep, but it always ended so I could take a rest and catch up. With a baby you don't get any chance to make it up, ever. You can get 2hrs sleep in 24 hours and be panicking because you know the next night will be the same and the night after that and you will start to hallucinate and become unsafe to look after the baby. I've never known panic like it: it does something weird to you because at the same time you're completely responsible for this helpless thing.

I didn't sleep for over 90 hours from the start of my induction until I left hospital, and I still had to wake every 2-3 hrs round the clock for months afterwards for BF so I never caught up. DD is nearly 12 months and I haven't slept for longer than 4hrs in a row for nearly a year (and for most of that year more like 2hrs in a row). Even on-call doctors and pilots and oil rig workers get rota'd some time off in 12 months!

I reiterate that despite at time having months of nights with half an hour's sleep , labour and newborn breastfeeding etc nothing is as hard or tiring as the job I had before where sometimes work was round the clock, you had to be fresh for 8am meeting having finished a 20 hour stretch at 4am etc. You cannot be so sure that your life with DC is harder than someone with no DC and it is IMO very rude and thoughtless to make that presumption.

You don't know what tiredness is until you have a 5 and 6 year old and work nights and it is suddenly the school holidays.

Well, I didn't, but I don't walk in your shoes, and noone else walks in mine!

YANBU!

traininthedistance, if someone offered me your fucking shoes to walk in, I would very rudely throw them at them!

You can still type full sentences!

FFS it is not a bloody competition

I usually tune out people like this and make sure they are not anywhere near my real circle of friends.

Thanks traininthedistance for being so honest about your experience.

I have chronic insomnia and sleeping pills don't work on me, the closest I've come to getting more than two hours sleep a night over the past decade has been when I've been put under for operations a couple of times. I regularly go 4-5 days with no sleep and at my worst I've gone a month with only microsleeps, no proper sleep.

So the tiredness thing has always driven me a little nuts. Without trying to make it a competition, I probably get less sleep than the vast majority of new parents, and for me it's a permanent state of being, unless some miracle cure is invented I'll probably be getting even less sleep in a decade. But I don't go around telling people 'you don't know what tiredness means'. I don't understand what makes people do that. If I can listen to friends and work colleagues talk about how they're shattered because they only got 5 hours sleep without telling them they've never experienced true tiredness, surely other people can suck it up. Telling a tired person you're more tired doesn't make them any less tired, it just makes you annoying.

I am pregnant and have suffered from insomnia since the start of my pregnancy. I work full time and have a fair commute (not as bad as some people's commute but I still find it tiring). I am tired. I have not and would never say that I am more tired than someone with children or indeed without children or more tired than I will be when my child is born. I might say, when asked how I am, that I am feeling a bit tired that day. When in response I am told that I do not know what tired is until I have the baby it really pisses me off. So now I just say that I am fine or clarify that whilst I might be tired/sick etc, I know that it will be worse when the baby is born, even though I was just answering their bloody question. YANBU. I also love the constant flow of helpful comments from my mother such as the baby will be here forever, you know. Well, I hope so, given what the alternative would mean. Advice is welcome. Scaremongering and seeking an opportunity to say I told you so is not. As you might guess from the above, I have mixed emotions about my forthcoming family christmas. Plus it is 4.20 in the morning and I am awake once again! Apologies for the rant.

I agree with you. It really fucks ne off when people insist i cant have had an easy baby, i must just not remember what it was like... No. She was just easy. I was more tired pregnant with her than i ever have been through her being here. (my sons on the other hand...).

I do think though there are times when having more than one child does give more weight and validity to your opinion.

For example someone with one child who's only ever done one method telling you their method is the best and insisting you try it with your baby... For example, a personal one is breastfeeding.

People constantly make comments about putting dc3 onto a bottle and seem to refuse to accept that it might not be the best method for me and insist on ramming tales of how their dc slept so well, it will be so much easier, ill be able to go out etc... I'm sorry but in that situation a parent of only one child or who's only used one method has no valid opinion there when i have three children, i formula fed one of them, breastfed the second for twenty months. So i know which one works for me, i know what's easiest for me and no i probably wouldn't go out anyway because of my mentally crippling mental health condition which is nothing to do with how i feed my baby.

Situations like that the parent with more experiences opinion is more valid when you're talking about things the more experienced parent should or shouldn't do.

if that makes sense (had no sleep sorry).

kmc1111 that sounds absolutely terrible - you have my sympathies! Is there no medical treatment that can help at all?

kmc111 I'm just recovering from over 3 years of insomnia, and I know what it's like when bastards helpful people without insomnia try to foist cures on you, so I really hope this doesn't piss you off but have you read this book?

It's the only thing that helped me. I'm now more or less back to normal. Chronic insomnia is HELL.

Hmm. I remember this attitude annoying me; but unfortunately the offenders were absolutely right!

What really grates on me now actually is the reverse. The childless friends who criticise you because you can't go out clubbing anymore, nor understand why you don't want to leave a 4 week old with a babysitter.

I always marvel when said judges then look boggled eyed with sleep deprivation when they then have a newborn.

Swings and roundabouts.

I've worked some shit shifts etc over my life, but nothing drained me more in life emotionally and physically than when my babies had reflux tbh.

I will happily tell you you don't know tiredness op, if your baby didn't puke and scream CONSTANTLY for what seemed like an eternity.

Talking about parenting knowledge and experiences is not being smug. You're taking it that way because you don't like that someone else might know more than you. They're simply telling you their experiences. YABU.

Take the good advice and ignore the rest, it's not meant to be a personal dig at you.

And yes, I only learned what tiredness was when I had my DS. When people told me that I should "wait until he's walking, then you'll see what difficult is" I felt the same way as you. Then he started walking and I see they were right. As much as you hate it you will inadvertently do the same one day because when you see someone with a baby you want them to know all of the things you didn't know when your child was that age, you want to help them avoid a lot of the confusion and stress that you felt. That's why they do it, be thankful that people care.

When I had DD1, I wanted to call the police as I felt very strongly that it should be illegal to have to function on so little sleep.

But I didn't know what tiredness was until DD2 came along

Look. Having these children is the hardest thing I've ever done. I have listened to HOURS of unsolicited advice from parents and childless friends and relatives moaning about how tired they are. I had and have no idea what I'm doing. I only feel knowledgeable about the stuff I've done already. I actually cannot resist the occasional piece of smuggery-please don't begrudge me this as it's ALL I'VE GOT.