To think that just becuase your dh works away during the week this does NOT make you a lone parent?

[justmuddlingalongsomehow]

That's just it really.

Yes, you have TIME on your own with the kids but you have someone else to share the tough times with even if it is over the phone sometimes.
You have someone who can take over the challenges of childcare at some stage in the not too distant future that you don't have to pay or feel guilty about imposing on.
You have someone else who is looking out for you even if they are not there all the time.
You have someone else to plan a future with and share decisions with.
You have someone who you can share the money worries with.
You have someone who gives a shit if you have had a bad day.
You have SOMEONE.

I would rather be a lone parent at the moment, don't get me wrong. But IT IS NOT THE SAME PEOPLE so please stop trying to equate the two.

This has probably been done before.

Rant over!

AdmiralData Your situation definitely sounds hard and it's very admirable what you do. However I do think your situation is different from being a "lone parent". That is 100% not to say your life is easier in any way shape or form just that it's not the same. I don't think the OP is trying to say one person has it worse than the next just that it is annoying when people try to compare two very different situations.

I am a lone parent, 365 days a year but I would never dream of comparing our situations...

I've been both a lone parent and one whose partner works away. I think they have similarities.

Husband in the forces, in the days before Skype/email etc when we couldn't afford the phone cards for him to phone other than once a fortnight for 10 mins from the south Atlantic, living at the opposite end of Britain to my family and working full time myself, for months at a time - I certainly felt like a single parent tbh.

Competitive hardship is a horrible thing, I personally think YABU tbh.

I'm not doing competitive hardship! Aaagh!

It was very similar in my experience. My life barely changed after seperating except I had more free time.

Maybe it's unusual to have an ex who pays his fair share of expenses and has regular 50:50 contact?

Yanbu. Legitimately, I do not know how lone parents do it.

Think I'd be dead in the water...

I haven't read the whole thread but DCs do grow up, and most people, living to a ripe old age, will have decades of only looking after themselves (unless they are landed with an idle partner then they will be looking after two!).

YABU - very. I have been in both circumstances - now LP previously in relationship with with XP who was frequently physically absent and permanently emotionally absent. I agree with you about the money side of things but apart from that you are wrong to judge.
Before XP left, i used to describe myself as a "single-handed mother".
I could not count on DP's help with the children or emotional support at all. Except financially, which I appreciate is a big deal. He was out of the house from 8.00 till 11.00. He did not stop work on the weekend. We never ate together in the evenings. The kids and I NEVER took priority over his work.
Now I am properly an LP I enjoy much more support from friends, family, community and the world at large. I don't have to run around after my partner or make myself look any particular way for him.
I really think that unless you have experienced both sides of this, you cannot judge.
Michelle Obama got into hot water recently describing herself as a single mother, which was a silly thing to say, but I knew where she was coming from. This "running a family together" is very much a middle class dream. When one partner - generally the man - has a career that carries with it great power and responsibility the other partner is in this strange halfway position between single parenthood and marriage, doing the whole family thing by themselves. And probably having to perform at high level in a social capacity - think formal dinners and high-end entertaining. Having to look immaculate. The ability to small talk your way through a meal sotting next to a high level politician. So lots of pressure. But with people like you judging them and downgrading their difficulties because they aren't a "real" single parent.
Which was why I came up with the term 'single-handed parent'.
Judge a little less - understand a little more. Never hurts.

I agree with balaboosta. I know both single parents in the traditional sense and women who are essentially single parents because of DH working in the city, every day including weekends; on the phone/Blackberry the rest of the time. Family plans generally cancelled at the last minute because a deal comes up. I wouldn't fancy either situation tbh, but in the latter they have to keep up a pretence of family life while actually having no help at all (except what they pay for). Emotionally, having no-one there to ask is horrible, but having to consult someone who's physically or mentally elsewhere 99% of the time isn't great either.

It's not a competition (although I wish someone would tell DH ) but I do think as a society we don't give enough credit to those individuals who do parenting by themselves; it must be very tough.

Bloody hell babaloosta read the facts. I have also been where you were - read my post of 21.59 last night. You say I can't judge unless I've been in both situations WELL I HAVE!

I am asking people not to equate 2 things. What the hell Michelle Obama has to do with this God only knows. I have the utmost respect for the woman and her amazing husband and I'm sure her life has challenges but she doesn't do it without support - stylists, hairdresser, staff for everything from changing the sheets to cooking supper, everything paid for and what certainly is portrayed to be a very strong relationship.

My op was very specific and though I totally accept that there are many difficult things raised in this thread, I stick by it. It is not the same.

I agree, it is not the same.

In my experience, life is SO much easier as a lone parent.

I still do everything I did before, but without having a man-child to deal with too.

These threads are kinda pointless. Everyone's lives are different, so its kinda like saying 'aibu to say that my life is different to your life'.

And it always smacks of 'it's so much harder for meeee' even if that's not the intention.

We all have different lives. Some peoples lives as a single parent will be harder than some people that are in a couple. Some experiences will be the opposite. But using what criteria? Who judges? And really, does it matter?

You have articulated what I tried to say and was flamed for. Thank you Balaboosta. It is a question of swings and roundabouts and having a workaholic husband does bring its own pressures that many would be unable to cope with, and I have been slated many many times on here for saying I do everything relating to the home and the DC (who are 19 and 15 now) and am expected to keep the home fires burning in the broadest contexts relatively single handedly. Yes, there aren't the money problems but often there isn't a great deal of practical support either even where there is love and commitment. But we have survived the hardest times when I literally had no emotional help with the dc, no parent to clal on to take them for half an hour, no break from them, etc. and yet still had to manage a home, a social life, etc., no help here with baths, drop offs, shared cleaning or cooking, yet an expectation that home was always a calm and ordered place. I say that also as a woman who went into labour once upon a time at 27 weeks and my dh was unable to leave court. His clerk was outside to catch him the minute it finished and fortunately he got to the hospital in time, ie, before his premature son died.

So for the person who quoted me above *Sometimes when you have a partner who's never there it is tougher

Wow, just wow. I truly hope you are never a single parent. You would never survive, if that comment is anything to go by.*

Thanks for seeing things from both sides of the coin and do have a very merry Christmas.

YANBU. Really f*cks me off when people say this. Worse is "I know what it's like to be a single parent, I took the kids on holiday by my self last year"!!!!! No, love, you really don't. How I didn't smack her one, I'll never know.

Surely it really depends on the support you have? A LP with lots of support - financially and emotionally - is going to be having an easier time than one with no support at all surely?

One of my LP friends has no support at all and even though she is happier without her ex she has found being a LP very lonely and tough indeed. Another has the full emotional, financial and physical support of her ex and his family, even his new wife and children and her own family and so has not really struggled at all.

And them I have friends who are married who are lonely and have no support, not even from their DH.

Comparisons are pretty futile really - we never really know the circumstances of other peoples lived.

NearTheWindmill I am so sorry to hear about your son. Regardless of who you are or what lifestyle you lead when something like this happens we are all stripped back to the basics. Just a parent grieving for the loss of a child. It is a devastating time, no parent should ever be in this position and I 100% sympathize.

Within the rest of my post I am not going to touch on the above it is with regards to what else you have said. I am the poster of the comment you quote above and I'm sorry but I standby what I said.

I feel I do see both sides of the coin. My ex husband was never around either so it's not that I haven't been in your position I wouldn't pass comment if I hadn't been on both sides and both are difficult at times. But when you still have partner you have someone that in an emergency you could contact. When having to make some of the more difficult choices you could run it past them.

I would like to draw your attention to this sentence in particular Yes, there aren't the money problems but often there isn't a great deal of practical support either This is what doesn't sit well with me. As a lone parent with ZERO financial support from DDs father I feel you are hugely dismissive of the financial burden of actually single-handedly keeping a roof over your head, bills paid, food in the fridge etc... This constant worry of have you got enough and if one month you are short having to figure out what can give a wee bit. You dismiss it like this is a minimal problem, the reality is that most lone parents have to deal with this constant struggle/battle on a daily basis. Even the one's that do receive some form of maintenance.

Along with this all of the above tasks that you mention dealing with, well we do it too. And a lot of never get a day off either.

So to actually say sometimes when you have a partner who is not there it's tougher, it is not tougher. It's tough but you still have someone there. He may not be around much but you still have someone. Lone parents do not, they have no one to rely on but themselves.

Personally if you think it's tougher to sometimes go without your partner then how on earth do you think lone parents do it day in day out without ever having a partner there.

The situations are different and drawing comparisons is probably pointless because at the end of the day we are all parents and go through hard times but the situations are not the same.

Some people really need to read (at least some of..) the thread before posting. OP has clearly stated more than once that she is not comparing situations where the DP/DH is emotionally/physically not there very often.

candycoatedwaterdrops Sorry if that was due to my above post. I know the OP isn't but what I wrote about comparing was to the posters who are intent on doing so.

No, it's not the same. A ring on your finger or being known to be in a long term relationship gives you huge protection in society generally. When you have this no one:
a) discusses you, loudly, behind your back in the school playground but just loudly enough so you can hear;
b) discusses how much money you have and how come 'that single parent' can afford a car and a mobile phone. Must be all the benefits.
c) asks you if all your children have the same father.
d) tells you that you should have your child's hair cut because 'people will think you can't cope'.
e) tells you that 'of course you're on benefits, all single parents are on benefits...there are single parent benefits that all single parents get so don't pretend you're not on benefits'
f) drops their child off at your house for a playdate and sighs, loudly, and says 'I suppose we're paying for you to live in that house'
g) tells you, to your face, that you're bad example to your parents because you don't work (whilst you're holding a new born baby in your arms)
h) tells you that your poor children are just about being abused because you work full time and they're in breakfast club and afterschool club and perhaps they would be better off with their father?
i) pulls their husband/partner away from you in the school playground/any other place you happen to meet them because he's blissfully unaware of the bottom of the pile place of the single parent and is happy to pass the time of day chatting to you
j) discusses, loudly, behind your back but just loud enough so you can hear the fact that you were seen in the pub with...shock horror... a man last night and how awful it must be for those poor babies to have uncle after uncle after uncle in their lives.

I could go on. I've been a single parent for 5 years and I've heard/had all that, more than once. My marriage broke down when my ex left for another woman whilst I was pregnant with our third child. So for a while, I was on benefits because I had no choice but when the youngest was old enough to go to school nursery, I went back to university to train as a teacher and now I work full time. My personal favourite comment was 'oh, I would love to do that but I can't because I have a husband'. I still haven't quite worked out what that was about - since having a husband doesn't stop you teaching (not the last time I looked, anyway) but I assume it was a dig at single mums 'having money thrown at them/benefits' comment. I own my own home - outright, no mortgage. I drive a decent car. I own a decent mobile phone. I budget to within an inch of my life and my ex makes no financial contribution and yes, I receive some tax credit to help with childcare so am 'on benefits' but I work full time (and some) so not sure what else I could do. I have dated but nothing serious and my children have not been introduced to any men at all. The woman who told me to get my child's haircut has a boy with hair down to his shoulders!

This is what single parenting is to me - that everyone thinks they know you and has an opinion on you and finds reason to make that opinion as low as it possibly can be. You don't have that - no matter how poor your relationship may be - when you're married. You're not public property and no one assumes anything about you in the negative. And if people can be bothered to say something positive, it's usually the trite diatribe 'oh, I so admire people like you.....' like parenting and working and getting on with life is some kind of heroic act. Don't admire me. Just treat me like a normal human being and assume nothing at all.

I have read "the facts". So you're point is simply that they're "not the same"? And...? My point is that you are unreasonable for judging people at all. What is easier for one person is harder for another. My life was very hard before Dp left and the feeling that people would be making this judgement - that i wasn't a "real" single mother - did not help me at all. I just knew I was struggling. But at the same time there didn't seem to be the space or recognition or empathy for the situation I was struggling with. It is exactly the type of judgement that you are making which made me feel lonely, isolated and misunderstood. So thank you for that.

I stand by my point: you are BU for saying they're "not the same" without recognising the struggle that comes with being a mother in a formal relationship without the involvement of a father.

Fwiw - anyone saying to anyone about anything "I did this thing for two weeks and so I know what you feel" is aggravating. And we should all try to avoid saying such annoying shit. But you can still have compassion for them having gone through it for two weeks.

"I stand by my point: you are BU for saying they're "not the same" without recognising the struggle that comes with being a mother in a formal relationship without the involvement of a father."

And YES - my life as a single parent is way, way easier that it was before I left my useless, aggressive addict of a husband. I could never leave the dcs with him and had no support at all at the end. At least now I am in charge of our destiny.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ That - I do recognise the struggle - I lived it for 6 years. 6 years of never being able to leave the children and have an evening out, 6 years of no support, financial difficulties and unpredictability. I have acknowledged how hard it is and that is why I chose to be a lone parent.

I don't think you quite get my point. But hey ho. I'm off this one now. Some agree, some don't. It is clearly a complex and emotive issue. This year I have the first Christmas where I don't have to worry about protecting the children. It is worth more than any money could buy.

I don't think you have read my post from last night Bala - 21:59. I was you - I've been there, I was lonely as hell. 'All the shit from being in a relationship and none of the benefits' as I have read someone else post on here.

Without causing uproar, as a married mum of 3 kids, with a self employeed husband starting his own business , leaving the house before we wake and getting home when we are asleep, I'd say it is quite similar ! I can't all him at work, I can't offload on him because he is stressed enough, and we don't have a great deal of money. I deal with everything in this house including his paperwork and I have no help apart from a friend I pay to watch the baby a few hours a week. Some line parents are fourtunate to send there children to their former partners at the weekend or holidays, no such luxury here !! It must be terribly lonely and hard work to be a single parent, but I can tell you it's no easier in this house ! If anything, I also have a husband to clear up after as well !

YANBU - people underestimate the stigma which still exists, the loneliness, never having anyone to talk to and the relentlessness of sole responsibility, worry about how children are affected etc.

There now seems to be mythical lone parents on MN who're leading the life of riley with family support and loads of money from exp's loads of free time etc. I don't know anyone like this and it's ime another form of single parent bashing.

this time of year is especially hard

add in complications of trying to co-parent and cope with with an ex if they're on the scene

luxury of sending children off to their other parent? ^^heard it all