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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Shoplifting..... So desperate at Christmas

324 replies

stubbs0412 · 20/12/2013 12:33

Not me btw
Whilst waiting in supermarket queue someone was escorted out by the police...."shoplifters" says the cashier. "Well, people are just so desperate this time of year aren't they?" Says the person in front of me. I could feel myself actually agreeing, is this u? R my morals slipping? I honestly don't think I would report someone I saw shoplifting food either.

OP posts:
leftkidney · 20/12/2013 21:54

leftkidney - The whole "you don't have to do Christmas" is complete shite.

I never said people don't have to do Chrismas, I just said you don't have to do the MN materialist, stuff your face til you're about to vomit spendfest version. Anyone can celebrate Christmas, it can cost little or nothing.

Maybe I'm on a different planet but I've gone without the turkey and all the trimmings multiple times on Xmas day, and I've never sat there thinking "OMG my life is shit I can't eat turkey today". I don't eat turkey the other 364 days of the year so I fail to see what I was missing out on. I feel bad for anyone who can't enjoy Xmas without aquiring a load of tat and stuffing their face. I thought it was about spending time with people you love.

grumpyoldbat · 20/12/2013 21:57

davidharewood I happen to know what it is like to go hungry. I've been there, I know it hurts, I know what it's like for your vision to go. I didn't steal and I still wouldn't.

stubbs I've experienced need. I've been homeless and hungry and I still think stealing is wrong.

For a start climbing the slippery slope out of poverty is a hell of a lot harder with a criminal record.

ShylaMcClaus · 20/12/2013 21:59

The "shoplifters will be prosecuted" signs in supermarkets don't register any more. Well they didn't until I was in the fresh fruit and veg section the other day. You'd expect one by the electronics, meat or even cheese, but a loose carrot, Tesco?

LessMissAbs · 20/12/2013 22:03

The tale of the student stealing the 'tiny turkey' up thread is the stuff of mumsnet dreams. I must be a a Capitalist Pig for wondering why he didn't go for a chicken instead, as the loitering with intent to source a tiny turkey to pilfer must have been stressful!

I suspect only an Evil Landlord could go wrong in munsnet terms by shoplifting...

stubbs0412 · 20/12/2013 22:17

Grumpy old goat . I also think stealing is wrong. But it doesn't mean I would not steal food to eat if I was desperate, if my kids were crying with hunger. It's called survival. If you are implying you have worked harder because of a criminal record, then forgive me, but why are you being moralistic about stealing food?

OP posts:
grumpyoldbat · 20/12/2013 23:04

I don't have a criminal record and I didn't say I'd worked harder than anyone in any way. I was trying to say that getting work would be harder if you had a criminal record which you would get if caught stealing.

hyenafunk · 20/12/2013 23:10

This is all so so reminiscent of a Dickens novel. How apt at this time of year as well. How awful when I remember we are in 2013, not 1883. It just reminds me of the line from Scrooge in A Christmas Carol "Are there prisons and workhouses? WELL GOOD THEN." Sling them all in there, it's their own fault they're in that position blah blah.

Have some of you actually listened to yourselves? "Christmas isn't compulsory"... You explain that to children who wake up to no gifts on Christmas morning and have no Christmas dinner. How about one year you opt out of it if isn't compulsory and see how happy you and your family are.

Clearly the benefit system isn't working if in 2013 we have people freezing to death, relying on food banks and having to beg, steal and borrow to get by. Clearly also people aren't being paid enough, since the majority of people on benefits are actually in employment. It's a very grim picture indeed. It must be nice sitting in your ivory tower looking down upon the 'peasants' and judging. I'm glad you feel comfortable doing that, I certainly wouldn't.

The fact ANYONE needs to steal is sad. Doesn't matter if that's to sell on (we have a black market for food in 2013, it's like WW2 all over again), they're obviously selling it to earn themselves extra cash which they need.

How about we demonise the fat cat bankers, MP's and millionaires who don't pay taxes instead of the poor stealing often from MASSIVE multi million/billionaire corporations so they don't starve. HTH.

LessMissAbs · 20/12/2013 23:13

How about we calm down and stop trying to demonise anyone, but simply remember that shoplifting is a crime?

VevvieXmas · 20/12/2013 23:14

I agree wholeheartedly with what cliff has said and understand what she means.

Stealing is wrong, but so is sanctioning people and leaving families with no means to keep themselves. In this day and age it is horrific. Surely that must be illegal, definitely wrong.

Life for some is truly abysmal at present. It really is disheartening.

And as for the behaviour of IDS and his sidekick, I do truly hope there is such a thing as karma. Unbelievable.

ThingsThatGoBumpInTheNight · 20/12/2013 23:17

I've wrapped dd1 in tea towels before now when she was a baby rather than shoplift. I wouldn't steal anything, never have, unless it was for my kids and then only food/essentials. However I am very lucky and have a supportive family/friends so can always rely on someone even if its to lend a fiver.
I wouldn't report anyone for shoplifting food however I have confronted people for it - I'm the person who realises they've been given too much change in the shop and gone all the way back to return it, chased a very affluent looking man up the road to give him ten pounds I saw him drop, even though I was stony broke, taken bags I've found back to the shop on the receipt or bag.
Because I do this I was hugely pissed off when I spent £90 I'd saved on clothes for ds2 and they were left in a mcdonalds by dsd, never to be seen again.
Hate dishonest people Hmm

pixiepotter · 20/12/2013 23:24

taken bags I've found back to the shop on the receipt or bag
why on earth did you do this, instead of leaving them, or handing them in where you found them.
The shop will just take them out of the bag and put them back on sale! Don't you think the manager will be squeezed and squeezed on his bottom line!

Robfordscrack · 20/12/2013 23:31

YABU because you're are assuming that people shoplift because they are desperate rather than just doing it for fun/because they want to. I would feel for them if they were genuinely skint but don't think this is the case with everyone. I recently witnessed someone running down the street with a bottle of vodka he had stolen (shop staff behind him) didn't look like he couldn't afford it, just wanted it for free.

Darkesteyes · 20/12/2013 23:41

Does anyone remember a childs story called The Little Match Girl. I remember reading it as a child. Back then i didnt believe that times like that would return.
As an innocent child how wrong i was. I remember crying at the end of the story. Think i was 7 or 8 at the time.

roseblanche · 20/12/2013 23:42

I have never stolen anything in my life. Indeed, I found a wallet containing cash and credit cards on a bench at the railway station just a few weeks ago. I took it to the local police station. Never heard any more.
My partner and I are just returned here to our country of birth after 12 years abroad,. Prior to living abroad, I paid UK taxes/Ni etc etc for 35 years. As a high earner prior to selling my business (£100k plus pa) I paid huge amounts to HM Treasury.
Upon our return we tried very hard to find employment, but there was none to be found. So, for the very first time in my life and after 3 months of nothing, I turned to the welfare state, in desperation. How much were we given in help? £75 a week. We were very grateful for this amount, as it stopped us from starving.
But seriously, how can anyone begrudge us that tiny amount of help to tide us over in such difficult times?

ShylaMcClaus · 21/12/2013 00:15

hyenafunk "Have some of you actually listened to yourselves? "Christmas isn't compulsory"... You explain that to children who wake up to no gifts on Christmas morning and have no Christmas dinner. How about one year you opt out of it if isn't compulsory and see how happy you and your family are"

Sounds like a good idea. Especially doable if the DC have all the clothes, gadgets, after-school clubs, ample house space to play and do homework, outdoor activities in the winter, cars to transport them in all weathers and most importantly, the money to feed them actual meat and vegetables every day of the year. More people should do it.

I watched the video of IDS sneaking out on the link up-thread and was fucking sickened.

ThingsThatGoBumpInTheNight · 21/12/2013 03:25

Because leaving them would mean someone got a freebie and handing them in where I found them, possible, yes. But when my bag of baby items went missing first place I checked was where I know it was left, then the shop I got them from, then the centre itself. Gawnnn sia-frikkin-nara no sign of.
Finding and making no effort to return I see as stealing IMO

MyBaby1day · 21/12/2013 05:35

I agree with everything THECliffRichard has said. I have some sympathy with people who are poor to be honest with you. It's not just the peer pressure of Christmas it's that sometimes people genuinely want something and can't have it whereas richer people don't even have to think about it. I know from personal experience, it's one rule for the rich and another for the poor, I have NOTHING against the poor, I don't have anything against any group of people but it would be better to have no rich-poor divide AT ALL and for everyone to be living on a decent standard then I think most shoplifting crimes would cease to exist. It's very sad Sad.

MyBaby1day · 21/12/2013 05:36

I ment rich....nothing against them at all, but the oppression against the poor is VILE. END OPPRESSION!

sashh · 21/12/2013 05:52

While I will agree that addiction is a horrible thing to suffer from, it is something that is only suffered by people who have made very damaging personal choices.

Yes because children and young women choose to be trafficked in to the sex industry where they are plied with drugs.

No one has ever sunk in to a bottle after the murder of their child/husband/wife/partner.

I know more than one alcoholic.

One started drinking when he found out his daughter had been regularly raped by her step brother for a number of years. He blamed himself because he was the resident parent but made sure his daughter went to see her mother every weekend. He didn't know that the mother was quite happy to let her ss rape her daughter.

Be honest, who wouldn't be tempted to drink finding that out?

mathanxiety · 21/12/2013 06:26

A woman may still be struggling to afford necessities even if she drives a people carrier and even if she and her husband are buying a mansion. Some women with abusive partners are not allowed to have more than a pittance for supplying their homes with food and other necessities. Financial deprivation is often a component of domestic abuse.

There are people who are in need and you can't always tell who they are from looking at them.

LOL at 'generous welfare state'. The only generosity in welfare is for corporate and special interest welfare, i.e. for those who can afford (because of the benefits they receive) to repay friendly politicians.

tanukiton · 21/12/2013 08:48

I bought some nappies once and just as I was leaving, noticed the bag had been tampered with. Someone had stolen 1 nappy! That made me feel sad. I,ve also seen people put the nappies at the bottom of the push chair and 'forget' to pay at the till. Just seems so desperate really....

3asAbird · 21/12/2013 08:50

I have worked i retail any years food, fashion and non foods.

city centre fashion was most scary as proper gangs 3 organised, own detaggers, fild lined bags, could get nasty or would nick then bring back for refund/exchange.

Worked for 3 different supermarket chains between 1996-2008.

I have worked in some rough areas.

one seemingly posh city in uk had huge homeless problem had more death threats there than other stores.

worked north, south east, south west and wales.
worked on sink estates very deprived areas
urban areas with large drugs problems
nice middle class suburban areas.

seen shoplifting all 3.

quite a few elderly
drunks/addicts

for me depends on item but do feel sorry for people pinching food.

sometimes over caution ruins shopping as security guard veiws everyone as potential shoplifter,thinking local co-op mans not too bad but big tesco and sainsburys total jobs worth.

security guards well they seem to fall into mainly 2 types useless couldent catch criminal if they tried or have go hero vigilantee types who also bouncers on side wit some sort hero complex and show no compasion /discretion.

Would be interesting see if shoplifting gone up since cuts I suspect it probably has.

A woman with over 50k husband could easily be financially abused no child benefit I guess.

Food banks I think are specific days and 3times limit and have to have referall from job centre-our nearest is miles away or hv so when doctors surgery open hv out mostly.

Our local food bank used to be 6miles over in next town and people used to walk each way s bus is £6. Think bristol only has 3-4 and its large city.

husband was unemployed for 3weeks ver summer housing took 10weeks to process, tax credits messed up all council used to say is you can go food bank thankfully we senisble wit food shops and keep house well stocked so we managed as buy mix of reduced go most evenings and try get most I can for money and buy value lines.

I have noticed the bigs ones mostly sainsburys tesco worst culprits seem to be increasing basic value lines by 10-30p someone cant downshift a brand if they buying value already not sure if tesco finest going up by same amount but seems morally wrong. As I buy a lot of value lines the prices are very erratic never the same each week we really have to shop around.

Its is true mangers can get disiplinary over stockloss but companies have targets not sure how they base that target based on previous years normally its low and unrealistic.

I think insurance bumps up due to false claims but food dont think does factor in theft. Theres heck of alot of waste and some chains really stingy with reductions its like they rather see it in bin makes no sense.

Corporate crime is lot less hidden muh of whats happened in financial sector since the rash seems criminal to me.

im sat on fence over this one. I would never steal but can see why people do.

Thinking this xmas the pressure , the ottness, the expectations, hype seems much wrse than say 5-10years ago.

Xmas seems to start in november and seen freinds spend obscene amounts of money on christmas freuently posting on fb about their luxury new tree decs more fool them they 70%off monsoon ones in jan.
Their endless lists of what they brought each child.

we havent had turkey for last few years as cant justify the cost of free range norfolk black we probably spend loads but get more for money.

we have had some frugal weeks mostly before payday I have been in lidls with my last fiver. I read threads on mse feed your familiy for £20 a week and jack monroe was feeding herself and small boy on 10quid a week.

What people maybe need to ask themselves is how would they cope if they just had £10? what would they buy, cook, where would they shop?

This thread reminds me need give donation new local foodbank as saw basket in church.

I know the food bank system exists so people dont take piss but maybe soup kitchens or place where people can get meals might be good as some dont have electricity or ovens.

I wonder how patchy provision is in the holidays?

IThinkThat · 21/12/2013 11:03

3asAbird. Good post. I am totally opposed to stealing under any circumstances but i am also incredibly sympathetic to people who are completely skint.

I think your suggestion that this thread act as a reminder to donate to a local food bank is spot on.

ElfontheShelfIsWATCHINGYOUTOO · 21/12/2013 11:35

I most def wouldn't make a good store detective, I would not stop someone stealing a small turkey, xmas pud, and a small packet of veg with some cream. I would have def let them go on their way.

Wallison · 21/12/2013 15:08
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