Shoplifting..... So desperate at Christmas

[stubbs0412]

Not me btw
Whilst waiting in supermarket queue someone was escorted out by the police...."shoplifters" says the cashier. "Well, people are just so desperate this time of year aren't they?" Says the person in front of me. I could feel myself actually agreeing, is this u? R my morals slipping? I honestly don't think I would report someone I saw shoplifting food either.

No, it's not 'OK' to steal. But neither is it OK to blame people for having reached that point. All the 'I would never...' statements are missing the point - the poor bugger I mentioned had run out of options.

Acknowledging his desperate state is not encouraging him to do it again, and if anything, I hope his public humiliation in the paper alerts people to the state some of their fellows are in.

"This thread has inspired me to make a donation to the Salvation Army."

Its a charity that has many appeals at christmas including a toy one. We used to do this at work, along with another one, until an employee complained. Her best friends children were given toys from the appeal at a playgroup despite having two parents and a huge extended family buying for them. Since then, the charity was switched.

Given what Vicar posted and the list of top items being stolen, it doesnt match that people are stealing to feed themselves. Stealing is never right regardless of the circumstances. There is never any excuse for crime.

I work as a dinner lady and caught 3 kids nicking last week. I hate catching them but it's wrong. Better now than when real consequences. However I did as a dare 30 years ago, buried my top that i pinched from Topsop in the back garden, could not wear it, so shameful

I wonder how much sympathy there would be towards a thief who broke into your home and stole from YOU?

If he/she was stealing to supplement their benefits that would be OK would it?

Just about everyone on this thread has said its wrong to steal but they can understand why some people feel that they have no choice

That includes people who would report a shoplifter and those who wouldn't

Some people seem determined to miss that point

For the hard-of-reading this thread is about shoplifting - "It's never OK to steal"...

It's also not ok in my book to stand by and see people starve to death. I believe that this is happening in the UK.

If a thief broke into my home and stole a sandwich because he was hungry... he would be welcome to the sandwich.

I am not talking about stealing as a lifestyle choice, or stealing because things are tight on benefits; I am talking about the poor bastards who literally do not have £1.20 to get one of those cheap sandwiches from Tescos. Whose lives are such that they don't get to make cosy, sensible, practical decisions from the comfort of their sofas, but end up making bad, desperate decisions from a concrete carpark.

If you truly, really, have no sympathy for a person in this state, I DO feel sorry for you. You think people want to steal, that they prefer to have sunk to this state?

the SA are compounding the problem.

johnnyvoid.wordpress.com/2013/12/17/salvation-army-fights-back-calls-critics-of-unpaid-work-offensive/

i donate regularly to charity and i also just donated to food banks through work.

but honestly i havent seen anyone steal because they were hungry. Most shoplifting is done for profit.

ive just interviewed someone tonight who preyed on a young disabled couple because they said they needed the money to feed their kids. they fleeced them of money among other things.

it was utter bollocks. i went to their house - they were just devoid of conscience - they left a severely disabled couple with no food because they told them they "owed" them money and they were too afraid to say no.
i have no doubt there is genuine poverty out there - but the genuine poor seem to be honest and poor - ive never come across anyone stealing out of genuine need.

people steel electricity for cannabis set ups.
shop lift for profit.
prey on the vulnerable for self gain. (seen this loads)

the genuine poor dont seem to commit crime. i would happily give the shirt off my back to anyone in genuine need, and i dont deny there are those that are - but they really dont seem to commit crime.

most crime i see is committed through greed or addiction.

*steal.
not steel! bloody hell....

no burglar is going to break in to your house for a sandwich either.

they will break in for your iphone, your ipod, your laptop, your TV, your car keys (and car) your money, your designer hand bags or your jewellery. anything but your food.

ive never, ever, heard of or experienced anyone burgling a house for a sandwich.

Am with you Cliff and Witch. How easy and satisfying it must be to judge this kind of predicament when you're warm, well fed, not lonely, have four walls and a roof around you and probably a fridge stocked with enough food to feed a small continent which only has to last you the coming few days. Let's take cheap shots at the desperate, heaven forbid any politician should have the backbone to step up and tell it is how it really is, that 90% of the treasury deficit is not through benefit fraud or shoplifting (!) but from tax evasaion and no-one has the guts to do anything about it becase we can't upset the fat cats can we? It's a disgrace how low this country has sunk with regards to the haves and the have nots and how easily the former can justify their attacks on the latter. I know somebody who shoplifts to feed her children, through no fault of her own she has been left to fend for herself and, shock, horror, she's not on drugs, just someone who has had crap thrown at her from every direction. I hope those of you who sit in judgement enjoy your affluence this Christmas.

I also know women who have stolen items like peanut butter and rusks and children's multivitamins and milk powder. Baby formula tends to be in locked cabinets near me so not so much of that. Maybe they get away with it because there are shop security guards who turn a blind eye, so their thefts don't show up in the stats.

i have siblings who have shoplifted - but both of them were addicts. one is now dead. i am not without sympathy for anyone in need - no matter why they are in need.

but if you are in genuine need there is no need to steal - go to CAB - they will help and direct you to a food bank. There is help out there for addiction if its wanted. (though there is a huge shortage of beds for rehab etc....)

i do not think addiction should be seen as criminal - its a health issue but the NHS views are different and addiction is seen as a choice.

the reality is that most shoplifters are not in dire need of food - i might have thought that at one time - but dealing with shoplifting as the bread and butter of my job has shown me thats just not true.

I think people who say they would never steal have never actually been hungry.

Not hungry, but HUNGRY.

I have flexible morals, I will do what I think is necessary to make sure myself and my family are warm and fed, if that impacts someone else then I will feel bad about that, but I will do what I have to.

I wouldn't turn in a shoplifter, would rather risk someone was taking the piss than be involved in stopping someone obtaining food they need.

There is something deeply deeply wrong with people who think it is OK for other people to go hungry when there is food available.

Desperate people do desperate things.

As I understand it there are now people in the UK who have no access to help/funds. None at all.

How exactly do you think those people are going to provide for their families?

They will do what they have to.

So either society takes the decision to provide an adequate standard of living for everyone or it accepts an increased crime rate.

Asda gives me the rage. My student DD was employed by them temporarily last year..they had every excuse in the sun not to pay her on time, expected lots of overtime they mysteriously 'couldnt find' on clock-in cards, and worked staff so hard. All this after making them wait weeks and weeks for wqages. They didnt do this to the older staff - they picked on young staff/students. Horrible, since Walmart took over. Yes..not ethical at all, theyre exploiters especially when they know theyre more likely to get away with it by picking on younger people.

but if you are in genuine need there is no need to steal - go to CAB - they will help and direct you to a food bank

My DH works for a charity that distributes food parcels for the only food bank in his area. They give enough food for up to 12 days....every four months (broken up into 3 food parcels every 4 months). There is no other help for these people beyond this. DH regularly has to turn away hungry families as they have had their allowance of food parcels already. There is no soup kitchen in his area. What else are these people supposed to do? I don't understand, Vicar, if you know a way for these people to get enough food please tell us!

but ive never had a shoplifter stealing through hunger. im not saying it doesnt happen, and if I were to.come.across someone in genuine need I would happily put.my hand in my pocket and buy the stuff for them. I.just haven't ever had a shoplifter stealing for food ,or nappies. its usually the same people, going for.the same goods that are easily sold on. meat, coffee, booze. ...last night we had one bloke.taking 3 bottles of Jack Daniels. ...tthe day before it was someone taking hair.straighteners, thats.not born of need is.it.... I think there is a misconception about why most shoplifters do it. People imagine por starving families. ...the reality is quite different.

Vicar, I believe you! Honestly.

And you're right, there's no way someone will break into my house for a sandwich - someone else conflated stealing food with burgling my house. They're not the same thing.

I'm quite glad you've never come across it - because if just one person, in 3.5 years, HAD actually seen a lot, then the problem would be massive, wouldn't it? I don't think the problem of people stealing food out of sheer hunger is that massive - but I also know that nonetheless it does exist, as reported by our local Courts.

This lad had nothing. Nowhere to live, no income, no friendly adviser patting him on the back and directing him to CAB. The poor sod was not one of the brightest or the best and wasn't in a position to 'access' all this wonderful charity people keep referring to.

Sorry to rain on the parades of self righteous. I went for a quick mooch into Tesco's financial report. So they make a margin of 5.7%. So a 4pt bottle of milk is £1.39. They make 7.9p on that bottle. so when it gets stolen they will then need to sell another 18 bottles of milk to cover their losses. On a revenue of 60bn quid they made 1.9bn quid and paid 574m in tax which is about 29%.

The large supermarkets are in a margin game - I am personally shocked as to how tight the numbers are. However that said the attitude of some posters is truly shocking. To morally excuse theft from someone because they have more than you? really? really? I suppose the next step is to legalise that theft in the form of government sanctioned confiscation of property from the rich. Of course we never hear who gets to decide who is rich do we? Richer than me? Richer than you? richer than the firebrand who believes all property is theft? Either theft is illegal or it isn't.

The trend towards moral relativism is a philosophical road to perdition. If you excuse one person because they "feel desperate" and that is enough you will open the ultimate door to accepting all sorts of abuse because the perpetrator felt justified via their belief system. There is no such thing as a victimless crime, there is no such thing as acceptable moral relativism. There must be some absolutes in order for society to function.

As for IDS laughing - look at all the other people have a good old giggle at the poor.

Sheila Gilmour MP Lab
Luciana Berger MP Lab
Jon Ashworth MP Lab
Stephen Twigg MP Lab (co-op member too!!)
Rachel Reeves MP Lab

Have a look at their smiling faces in the debate - oh how dare they - they must be rubbing the poor's noses in it.

source

Oh and look at these ones - taking clear pleasure at the poor.
Angela Eagle MP Lab
Ed Miliband MP Lab
Gordon Brown MP Lab
Saddiq Khan MP Lab
Rachel Reeves MP Lab - again

source

So i think we need to do a little fact checking before decrying that someone smiling in a debate in the house of commons indicates that they must be eeeeevil torrries. either that or the vehement posters here are astroturfing….perish the thought

Ghetto princess I'm a little irritated that you think I have nothing better to do than create my own "version of events" and then post it on mn.
The discussion is largely based on an assumption that the person arrested was "desperate" in some way and this is subjective, desperate for drugs, food, money .... A situation some cold hearted, unrealistic people seem to think doesn't exist. Perhaps desperation has never knocked on your door, but for many it has, does and will.
Incidentally why call yourself "ghetto princess"? Just interested.

Again.

NO ONE IS ENCOURAGING PEOPLE TO STEAL
NO ONE HAS SAID IT IS OK TO STEAL
STEALING IS WRONG, WRONG, WRONG

How many times are some posters going to miss that point?

I believe now that posters are deliberately missing that point because they just want to argue and put forward their right-wing propaganda. There is no point arguing with someone who repeatedly and with intention, misses your point and puts words into your mouth.

WE SAID THAT WE CAN UNDERSTAND WHY SOME PEOPLE GET THAT DESPERATE

With the utmost of respect VicarInATutu you say you haven't known anyone to steal out of hunger but I mentioned THREE police chiefs earlier on who had. From Manchester, Yorkshire and Glasgow and I believe there were more Police Chiefs from different parts of the country all saying the same thing.

Does your experience VicarInATutu overrule the experiences of these police chiefs?

I didn't think it was possible that posters could deny the HUGE amount of evidence from charities and the police which state that stealing through hunger is on the increase. But it seems I was wrong. They have ignored it completely.

I gave links and another poster gave links to local newspapers and to national newspapers which gave repeated evidence based on the experiences of food banks, charities and the police.

But the same posters ignore that. They bang on about how stealing is wrong and how we are giving people the green light to steal. Because that's the crux of their argument, to put words into our mouths, ignore the evidence before them and repeatedly and deliberately misunderstand our point.

I do not believe there is anything to be gained by repeating what has been said above.

Christmas or not, some people are determined to beat the poor with a stick whilst they are already down. They are determined to deny that there is a problem with food poverty a bit like the government are determined to deny that the rise in food banks and poverty is anything to do with their welfare cuts no matter what evidence is put before them to the contrary. They would rather walk out of a review on food banks than listen to what people are saying.

Thank God there are people out there willing to sacrifice their Christmas Day to look after others. If we inhabited a world full of people like some posters on this thread, I would have opted out long ago.

I can only repeat, that I sincerely hope none of you ever find yourselves in need and up against the attitudes you display on this thread.

Happy Christmas.

Right back atacha thecliff

I think there has been loads of misunderstanding the point on both sides

But I agree completely with your final three sentences

Happy Christmas

YY thecliff Sometimes i think "goodwill to all men" becomes more and more of a myth with each christmas that goes by.

my mom stole toilet rolls from public loos, food from supermarkets. the first Christmas I remember was in a hostel. And I only remember because a fire started and I stood outside in pjs in the freezing cold while the fire engines fought it.

Not all theives are the same.