Shoplifting..... So desperate at Christmas

[stubbs0412]

Not me btw
Whilst waiting in supermarket queue someone was escorted out by the police...."shoplifters" says the cashier. "Well, people are just so desperate this time of year aren't they?" Says the person in front of me. I could feel myself actually agreeing, is this u? R my morals slipping? I honestly don't think I would report someone I saw shoplifting food either.

I'm not a seething UKIP sympathiser, I'm actually a bit of a wishy washy liberal.

I just do not think that an apologist approach to crime is the way to go.

Me neither complexnumber but I do think that if you see a rise in a particular sort of crime then you need to look at the reasons behind it otherwise you are tackling the symptoms rather than the cause.

Prevention is better than cure.

Right now I think we all know why there might be a rise in the number of shoplifting cases, particularly at this time of year.

complex - do you know how much corporate subsidies and tax avoidance costs us all? Clue - far more than that. The taxman routinely lets off multinational companies that use illegal tax schemes, while pursuing the little guys with the full vigour of the law.

Scamming is scamming, but MPs and big business get away with it, while the blame is dumped on the poor.

Thanks edam

This is going to get more and more common because of government policies. People have to eat and if the only way is to steal then who can blame them. Especially when you read how MPs get £75 a week breakfast allowance. It's all theft, except there's is legalised.

Oh and wasn't Tesco outed a few years back for avoiding paying tax?

Most people who shoplift are not desperate, they are opportunists stealing stuff to sell on. With small businesses this can be a major issue.

Prevention is better than cure.

Where has anybody said it isn't? Or that companies that don't pay their fair share of tax shouldn't be sorted out? Or that millionaire bankers are all top guys and gals?

Following your reasoning to your logical conclusion, NO crime should be prosecuted, because all crime is preventable, whether it's by making a more equal society, improving peoples upbringings or whatever. You can tackle the cause and symptoms at the same time. Quite frankly it's insulting to people who struggle and don't commit crime to suggest that people who do resort to crime should be excused for their actions.

THECliff - of course they make profits, that's how they run the business. Every business must make profits in order to survive; the larger the better.

It could be asked why should the supermarkets have to fund those who steal by effectively absorbing the cost of loss through theft? When we're in tough times like this, it looks like a good idea to normal people on the street because it seems like the supermarkets are rolling in it. But if they absorb the costs (of theft or any other business risk) then they have less profit to invest elsewhere, which will result in higher prices to the consumer to recover money lost.

I don't believe they are forced to put the prices up, but it certainly makes for good business sense.

Yup, what leftkidney said.

Firstly - I have not said that no crime should be prosecuted. I think leftkidney that your argument would be better if you didn't "logically" put words in my mouth

I have argued that you do need to tackle the cause. That is correct. I have not said that any crime should go unpunished. I do believe that some petty crime is given all the attention whilst crime which costs the taxpayer billions every single year and which, if tackled could reduce the deficit considerably, is ignored because these large companies are Tory party donors, such as the Tesco boss.

I have said that I personally, would turn a blind eye to someone stealing food. However if that person is caught then they should have to go through the official process like everyone else.

FyreFly why should supermarkets fund shoplifters? Well why should the public fund supermarkets who don't pay their tax bills?

Of course there should be measures put in place to stop shoplifters and I believe there are. Of course it is a problem. That's why the problem needs tackling at the source so that there are fewer shoplifters. Doesn't that make sense?

Not all shoplifters are poor and desperate and yes, some steal to fund a drugs habit or steal to order. But if you tackle food poverty then you reduce the number of criminals and surely that can only be a good thing?

THECliff - the public shouldn't be funding businesses who don't pay their taxes, but again, that's not the focus of this thread, which is shoplifting.

Me neither complexnumber but I do think that if you see a rise in a particular sort of crime then you need to look at the reasons behind it otherwise you are tackling the symptoms rather than the cause.
That seems very true. TheCliff

However I am alarmed at how some posters feel that they can distinguish between a stranger in genuine need, and the others who are merely chancing it and pushing the prices up for all of us.

With regard to high level Business fraud and tax avoidance; I'm not sure that anyone approves of all that, though it is much less visible.

I have no knowledge of tax laws, so I have no right to say whether a company is behaving immorally or not.

I rely upon the media to tell me this stuff, and we all know how safe that is. (From both points of view).

Very true complex I personally cannot tell the difference between a criminal and someone in need - they don't wear tags, mores the pity

I don't believe in criminal activity but I can understand how desperate people might be pushed to engage in that activity. I understand because I've been there and so has the famous Mumsnetter Jack Monroe who so eloquently writes about it.

Rightly or wrongly, I would personally turn a blind eye. I also give money to beggars, just because. That's my perogative.

What I don't like is this attitude that no-one can possibly be that desperate. They can.

TheCliff

It scares me how quickly a seemingly comfortable 'mc' household such as ours could descend into financial tail spin.

I think it might take 3 months... max!

leftkidney On the point of you having no sympathy for drug users, I think you are over simplifying matters. There are complex and often tragic reasons why people 'choose' to become drug users. Quite often drugs are used to mask traumatic events that people have experienced, such as sexual abuse or having been in a conflict (armed forces). Once they are in the grip of addiction the person they once were disappears only to be taken over by a selfish, drug obsessed addict who would often stop at nothing to get their hands on their next fix. If that is not tragic, I don't know what is.

I shoulda also add that I started a thread a few days ago about food banks. I've seen for myself how desperate increasing numbers of people are. They are in real need of food having been assessed as such by professionals, such as HV and social workers. The point somebody made about nobody being in real need of food is absolute rubbish.

That's what angered me joni

yes complex it would take us weeks to be in that position.

I'm not saying that this crime should go unpunished but I think that it is useful to compare to other crimes, particularly when talking about the cost to the public purse.

My dh has faced redundancy three times now and we've faced real hardship and been forced to rely on benefits. We've given our children second hand toys as gifts and we've made food last and budgeted and scrimped. I've been lucky in that we've never got to the point where we've been that desperate. Lucky for us we do have families who care enough to help us out financially but others aren't so lucky.

To state that no-one is desperate enough to steal food is just being blind to reality.

Yes crime should be punished but the focus should go more towards crime that costs the taxpayer billions and is one of the reasons so many of us are living in poverty and relying on handouts, because this country is in a deficit that would be eased if every bloody company paid their due amount in taxes. Let's focus on that crime and give it the attention it deserves because one you face that crime head on, you'll find it has a knock-on effect on these smaller crimes.

I've bought what I'm assuming is stolen meat a few times before.Last time was a huge beef joint from a supermarket for a tenner.It fed us for a week.They don't come round as much anymore but I have no problem buying from them again...we aren't skint but at the same time good quality meat is a luxury for us.I don't think they shoplift it though I think they are in cahoots with people who work in warehouse.People do what they have to do.

FrostedButtsFri 20-Dec-13 14:46:21

3 of which were families with kids who no matter what happens will miss out on £200 income they were expecting. Yesterday was the last day the foodbank will be open till Jan and they only give 3 days of food.

This situation is inhumane. By Christmas Eve the NHS will be dealing with this when either adult or child gets taken to hospital.

But, because we have no idea about high finance fraud really looks like... we will inevitably look to what we do recognise.

And the press will pick up on this. When the DM talks of banking 'Fat Cats' few of us have an actual clue what is being discussed, just a general grimace.

But when they focus on a bloke who mugs a pensioner for the 50p in her purse, everyone can hate that man.

I'm not sure to what extent a reduction in low level crime might give rise to an overall rise in national optimism, but I think it might be quite large.

(Media coverage is everything, but then I think you could have told me that)

People that illegally evade paying tax, MPs that fiddle their expenses AND shoplifters (or people in cahoots with shoplifters) are all thieves . Whatever the reason there is no justification. It's dishonest and I can categorically state that I would never do it. I would beg if I had to but I'd never steal.

I am not perfect, I have speeded etc but stealing or accepting stolen goods is a step too far for me.

Am I heartless for not feeling at all sorry for the student nicking a 'small turkey' and 'small Xmas pudding' on Xmas eve?

If he was genuinely starving with nothing to eat why not steal a few tins of soup/ a loaf of bread? not a fucking TURKEY. Christmas food is expensive! I have no sympathy for someone presumably thinking 'oh poor me I have no Christmas dinner, I'd better steal a turkey and some veg and a Christmas pudding and some cream'

people are only more desperate at Christmas because of the crappy culture of 'buy sparkly tat'. We need to change that and teach people to be less sheep-like.

saying it isn't theft because the company makes a huge profit makes me wish that whoever said that will be burgled. See how you like it when someone steals what YOU have worked for.

Am I heartless for not feeling at all sorry for the student nicking a 'small turkey' and 'small Xmas pudding' on Xmas eve?

Nah. Well not in my view anyway, although usual MN logic usually results in me being labelled a heartless shitbag too. There certainly seems to be a strong feeling of entitlement to a certain sort Christmas on here amongst some, in that everyone has a right to a big turkey dinner with all the trimmings, and a pile of presents under the tree.

I remember having a bowl of cereal for xmas dinner once. Maybe I should have gone down Tesco and robbed a Turkey and played the "woe is me" card too.