Shoplifting..... So desperate at Christmas

[stubbs0412]

Not me btw
Whilst waiting in supermarket queue someone was escorted out by the police...."shoplifters" says the cashier. "Well, people are just so desperate this time of year aren't they?" Says the person in front of me. I could feel myself actually agreeing, is this u? R my morals slipping? I honestly don't think I would report someone I saw shoplifting food either.

Again, it's so easy to sit in your ivory tower tucking into your turkey and all the trimmings whilst telling others that they should have soup if they can't afford turkey.

Heartless.

I didn't make the comment about stealing from a company but I have been burgled. My stance hasn't changed.

complex I agree that large scale crime is largely invisible. It IS easier to focus on the individuals. With a mugging you can clearly see the victim and hear their story. With corporations the victims are all of us.

As we are struggling to feed our families, living off minimum wages, having pay cuts, getting our services and charities shut down, etc just remember that the UK deficit would be paid a lot faster if every corporation paid UK tax. We are all the victims of crime. We pay our taxes, we do what is right yet every single one of us is being fleeced.

Yes the media coverage reports on what is easiest to report. Talk about tax avoidance and the general public look bored; talk about a single mother shoplifting some food and people suddenly have an opinion and like to voice that opinion.

It's not right but I daresay nothing will change.

Again, it's so easy to sit in your ivory tower tucking into your turkey and all the trimmings whilst telling others that they should have soup if they can't afford turkey.

You know, I left in the anecdote about going without turkey one year (not the only one btw), even though it was completely irrelevant, specifically because I knew someone would trawl out the tedious ivory tower line. Apparently even that isn't enough, do I need to live off raw sewage every day to be allowed an opinion then?

I'm sorry leftkidney but I don't feel qualified to deny others what I have or to say "tough shit".

I don't believe that generally people choose to be in that position. I am worse off than my parents ever were, yet my husband works hard from 6am until 6pm and I too, work my arse off. How is that fair? It's not a fair society and never will be but to tell people to just lump it does seem heartless I'm afraid.

Call me a typical MN leftie if you like, it matters not. I won't stereotype you because it's insulting to do so. I have my opinions and you have yours. I might be soft in the head and you might be too hard nosed. Who knows? But I could never deny others the small luxuries we have. I could never tell people to live on soup and cereal whilst we tuck into turkey and mince pies. That's just me.

x-posts. Let's not turn this into a squabble. I don't have the energy for that today. Of course you are allowed an opinion. I think I said that. My point was made in my previous post, that for me having plenty whilst telling others to make do doesn't seem right. What makes you more deserving than them?

I know from experience that no matter how hard you work in life, sometimes you can just suffer from bad shit luck like redundancy, illness, etc and through no fault, you can find yourself in that position.

completley agree with Cliffrichard on taxes

when the big corporations pay their taxes i may give a tiny shit about somone nicking food from tesco

Did he get those YFronts from Tesco Custy?

i sorely doubt it - the fucker. I probably paid y-front premium at a bespoke effing tailor

I've never made claim to being more deserving than people on a low income - however I don't see who gains from a well off person telling somebody without much money that they are entitled to all the same stuff, and excusing them committing crimes to attain it. It may ease the well off persons guilt but it doesn't improve the life of the less well off person, far more likely it makes their situation worse.

The case at hand was talking about a student also; a student (particularly from the 60s, where degrees were very valuable), can well expect to have a better financial situation in future, so there's no excuse for them to go round nicking an xmas feast as if they are some charity case who will never experience anything other than grinding poverty.

Did he get those YFronts from Tesco Custy?

Am I the only one who is going to try to casually drop this phrase into tomorrow's conversations

the same stuff...what like food?

it needs to be a new catchphrase complexnumber :)

i think nicking a jar or cranberry sauce and a brie cheese platter...might be the same stuff

Course, because all students are living above the poverty line.

If you can't see what is wrong with telling people to live off soup on Christmas Day whilst you feast on turkey then I give up.

No-one should have to rely on charities to provide food for their families. No-one should be that desperate to be forced to steal food. No-one should have to sit alone eating bread and soup at Christmas.

Don't you get what Christmas is all about? It's about sharing. The season of goodwill and all that. It's not about looking down on those who can't afford any food and telling them to make do with what they have.

At this time of the year at the very least we need to show a little heart to others. One day that could well be us and the last thing we'd need is judgement. What we would need is a little kindness and a little humanity.

And yes, it does need to be put into perspective with other 'invisible' crime that has made victims out of all of us. One student stealing his Christmas dinner doesn't deserve our vitroil and judgement - save that for the boss of Tesco.

complex I think it needs to go t-shirts, frankly.

Stuff the brie and cranberry, I'm going to steal taxpayers money by avoiding tax. It's much more profitable and what's more, I can get away with it and even be held up as a respectable member of society, unlike that scumbag student who dared to think that he should eat a bit of turkey at Christmas!

LET THEM EAT CAKE

I don't think we should get to choose which shops deserve to be robbed and which ones don't

You either think that stealing is wrong and the perpetrators should be punished (or helped in the case of kleptomania or addiction) or you don't

Our system is faulty and some people are desperate but that shouldn't mean that it's open season on stores whose policies we dislike.

Where does it end?

If you don't want to grass someone up then that's obviously up to you, but not everyone is an Oliver Twist, there are a lot of BIll Sykes wound as well

I think that generally, shoplifting is never justifiable. As others have said we all have to pay more to cover those that do it.

Personally I could never feel good about having something I hadn't paid for.

However, I totally agree that it is beyond sad to see security tagged food, including cheese!!

The government are the ones to blame.

If you can't see what is wrong with telling people to live off soup on Christmas Day whilst you feast on turkey then I give up.

Well you'll have to give up then, as I find the principle that once you've gained a certain amount of income all your previous life experience and general ability to apply common sense to a situation no longer counts rather silly.

One student stealing his Christmas dinner doesn't deserve our vitroil and judgement - save that for the boss of Tesco.

Again I'm quite happy to judge both by their actions, not decide who is the greater villain and use them to excuse the other.

my moral compass doesn't work that way rufus and i do not believe the blanket statement that stealing - no matter what - is wrong

since when did the costs of goods go up becuase of shoplifting at tesco or asda? they make such huge fucking profits
tax dodge
use unpaid slave labour

the cost of shoplifting at these places to other consumers is NIL

fucking nothing

like they would put 3p on a tin of beans to stop it from being stolen

i think not

Agree whole heartedly with Cliffrichard. The older I get the more this sort of thing disturbs me.

*as a consequence of shoplifting - rather than "to stop it being stolen"

I don't think anyone is saying that shoplifters should get away scott free, that is a wrong presumption. In fact I have said the opposite. I have said they should face the same justice as everyone else.

I've said that personally I'd turn a blind eye to someone stealing food. That's me, personally, not a political statement on shoplifting as a whole.

There is no harm however in comparing that to other crimes which have more victims. If shoplifters should be brought to justice then so should tax avoiders. That seems logical right? So how come tax avoiders aren't being brought to justice? How come we know the names of those who avoid tax, we know the companies who are doing it and yet they are free to continue to do so? Doesn't that strike you as illogical?

Why pick on petty crime and ignore large scale crime?

It's like coming down hard on the person in possession of cannabis whilst ignoring the huge drug smuggling operation going on under your nose.

No one should steal. I don't think anyone has said anything different, please let me know if they have.

That doesn't mean that large companies should pick and choose which taxes to pay. After all, where does it end?

We live in one of the richest countries in the world and those at the top have been avoiding and fiddling tax forever They feel entitled so why shouldn't someone at the bottom in a country where food banks are opening weekly feel pissed off with their lot. The food bank at the end of our road is about 70% working people

"Well you'll have to give up then, as I find the principle that once you've gained a certain amount of income all your previous life experience and general ability to apply common sense to a situation no longer counts rather silly."

I think you will find that I was appealing to your better nature. To ask that you don't judge everyone with the same mantra. Not every shoplifter is a seasoned criminal, some people are that desperate and it does seem rather trite to tell them to survive on whatever handouts they can get just because life dealt them a shit hand. That is turning a blind eye to one of the causes of crime and common sense tells you that if you want to solve crime, you look first at the causes and try to eliminate them.

Even the great Sherlock Holmes knew the difference between petty crime by desperate people and organised crime. Fictional or not, he epitomised logic and common sense and he knew all too well that one had to focus on the cause of crime if you wanted to eliminate the crime.

This is how the people at the top treat the people at the bottom Esther McVey